Health, Fitness & Personal Growth Tips for Women in Midlife: Asking for a Friend

Ep.182 The Real Science of Healing: Trauma, Epigenetics & Midlife Burnout with Dr. Karyn Shanks

• Michele Henning Folan • Episode 182

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A lot of women in midlife are walking around feeling like they’re broken. You’ve done the labs, seen the specialists, tried the supplements… and you’re still exhausted, inflamed, and wondering if this is just your new normal. My guest today says absolutely not.

Dr. Karyn Shanks is a physician, author, and pioneer in whole-person healing whose work sits at the intersection of cutting-edge science, trauma-informed care, and what she calls “soulful personal agency.” For over three decades, she’s helped thousands of patients recover from chronic illness, burnout, and emotional disconnection—not by chasing symptoms, but by teaching them to listen to the intelligent messages their bodies are sending. 

Her new book, Unbroken: Reclaim Your Wholeness, challenges the old medical model that fragments us (mind over here, body over there) and reframes illness as a call to reconnect with ourselves rather than proof that something is wrong with us.

In this conversation, we dig into what it really means to heal from the inside out—especially in midlife, when chronic stress, caregiving, perfectionism, and old narratives can keep us stuck in survival mode. Dr. Shanks breaks down the science of epigenetics and neuroplasticity in simple, hopeful language, shows how trauma and limiting stories shape our biology, and shares practical “micro-practices” anyone can use to begin moving toward wholeness today.

We cover:

  • Why “you are not broken” is more than a comforting phrase—it’s biology
  • How epigenetics and neuroplasticity give us real power to change our health story
  • The hidden ways trauma and productivity culture keep midlife women sick and depleted
  • Simple daily practices to check in with yourself, build intuition, and create safety in your own body
  • How to start advocating for yourself when you’ve felt dismissed or unheard in the medical system

If you’ve ever felt unseen by your providers, stuck in a diagnosis, or disconnected from your own body, this episode will give you both a new lens—and a starting place—for true healing.

You can find Dr. Karyn Shanks at https://www.karynshanksmd.com/

Instagram https://www.instagram.com/karynshanksmd/

Her book, Unbroken: Reclaim Your Wholeness, is now available wherever books are sold.

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1:1 health and nutrition coaching or Faster Way - Reach me anytime at mailto:mfolanfasterway@gmail.com

If you’re doing “all the right things” and still feel stuck, it may be time to look deeper. I’ve partnered with EllieMD, a trusted telehealth platform offering modern solutions for women in midlife—including micro-dosed GLP-1 peptide therapy—to support metabolic health and longevity.

https://elliemd.com/michelefolan - Create a free account to view all products.

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🎤 In addition to coaching, I speak to women’s groups, moderate health panel discussions, and bring experts together for real, evidence-based conversations about midlife health.

Transcripts are created with AI and may not be perfectly accurate.

Disclaimer: This podcast is for general informational purposes only and does not constitute the practice of medicine, nursing, or other professional healthcare services. It is not a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. Always seek the advice of your qualified healthcare provider with any questions regarding a medical condition.

Michele Folan:

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Karyn Shanks, MD:

Thank you so much for having me. And that was a beautiful introduction. Beautiful.

Michele Folan:

Thank you. It's so funny. I I've never written a book, but I do like to write, and I try not to lean on Chat GPT too much. So you know what I mean? But yeah, so yes, and speaking of books, we will talk a little bit about your book. But you've you've been a physician for over three decades, so a long time. And I like to first dig into career path and then what led you to this integrative whole person approach?

Karyn Shanks, MD:

Right. Wow. I think that started long before I went to medical school when I had a just a holistic orientation toward people, friendships, uh, people I worked with. I had an early job through my late teens and into my 20s throughout college. I was a home health nurse. A lot of that was hospice work, and I was in people's homes and I was getting to know them and I was supporting them in all the ways. I got to know their families. And there was just this beautiful empathic connection that occurred. And when I got the idea to go to medical school, I thought that's what I was getting into was a whole person connection-based process and relationships. And of course, that's not what modern Western medicine is fun is all about. Right. Not to say there aren't physicians that are very empathic and caring, but it's just not that was not a part of my training. Um, so that was my first, like, I was a setup for that mismatch between how I saw foundational relationships with people and how I experienced them, and then how I learned to become to be a doctor, like all the things that we learned in medical school and medical training. There was just an incredible mismatch. And then, but I I did it, I did all the training. I became board certified as an internist. But the moment, like day one in the clinic, as a new practicing doctor, I realized that what people were coming in with, I really didn't have the training to help them with what they really needed. And that led me into more of an exploration into women's health because especially women's issues, that we don't learn anything. Menopause, PMS, you know, pro uh sources of profound suffering. And I didn't have a clue what to do. So I had to, I had to go learn it. And then one thing led to another. I'm looking at people, you know, within the medical context as whole people and pr and learning to create a practice model that allowed me to do that because of, you know, you there are great time constraints. Oh, yeah. And I somehow was able to rebel and get away with it in with it inside the the first uh traditional practice I was in. And I eventually found Jeffrey Bland and the Institute for Functional Medicine, which gets all goes deep, dives deeply into uh systems biology and a whole person strategy for helping people heal. And yes, I I just completely re-educated myself, but still with a foot in that camp of conventional Western medicine, which I have found to be very important to combining all those things to help people.

Michele Folan:

Well, you know, this is something that I hear a lot of doctors talk about is that, you know, you work for a hospital system or a group practice where you have 15 minutes to see a to see a patient, right? And they may be coming in with a whole long list of things, which is great. But you in order to figure all that out, you've got to dig really deep. And I think you were saying that that you just didn't have the ability, the time to be able to do that effectively.

Karyn Shanks, MD:

That's right. But I didn't have the time and I didn't have a lot of the knowledge. Yeah. I didn't, you know, I learned a disease model, you know, and a way of interviewing people that puts them in a disease box first and foremost foremost, so that we can then apply the right protocol, one size fits all protocol, to help them with their symptoms. It was just missing a lot of the important attributes of who people are, how they function, and how they heal.

Michele Folan:

You've personally walked the journey of chronic illness. How did your own experience of being a patient reshape your understanding of healing?

Karyn Shanks, MD:

I have had a lot of weird things happen to me.

Michele Folan:

Oh no.

Karyn Shanks, MD:

And including a diagnosis that is so often missed and poorly understood, that's called Erlos-Danlos hypermobility syndrome, which comes with a lot of stretchy, lax ligaments, low blood pressure, a variety of issues that are related to unique connected tissue. And for years and years and years, I had one injury after the other, you know, and the low blood pressure that I didn't know about, but caused bouts of severe fatigue, like drop-dead fatigue. And it was, I was treated like many parts, many problems. So I had a zillion diagnoses, you know, shoulder tendinitis, uh, knee strain, whatever. I mean, a zillion different separate diagnoses. And at one point, and I write about this in the book, so I won't go into it in detail, but at one point I really crashed and burned and was so frustrated. And I knew I had to find a different way of looking at what was going on with me. And that's that led me to taking my blood pressure at home on my own, and it was so low. Oh my god. So low. I got on my it was like 80 over 50 sitting and dropped to 70 over 30 standing. And that is like unsustainable blood pressure. Oh my God. I I'm surprised you didn't pass out. I never got dizzy. I was just so exhausted. I had to sit down. You know, I was how old were you then? I when I made that discovery, oh my God, I was like 50. I was in my early 50s all the way here. And people were taking my blood pressure. Oh, it's low, that's great. You know, it'd be 90 over 50 in the office when I should have white coat hypertension, right? Exactly. And they're saying, oh, it's low, that's great. But that was a real eureka moment. It's like, okay, there's a piece of the puzzle. I had to figure out the diagnosis on my own. And not everybody has that ability to do that. I'm a doctor. I I can, you know, explore these things, but it just blew my mind. So I got so what I was able to do is get at a root cause. And root causes are not what we discover in most encounter, most Western medicine encounters. We we look, it really stays at a superficial level and applies symptomatic fixes. So that was a real that was a huge aha for me that I began to apply to my chronic complex clients.

Michele Folan:

You know, you use this phrase, we are never truly broken, which I love, you know, because I told you before we started recording, you know, we often say things like, you're not broken, it's never too late. Can you share how that belief became the cornerstone of your work?

Karyn Shanks, MD:

Because I I began rather than being discrete parts, uh, bodies composed of discrete parts, organisms composed of discrete parts, you know, we've got our body here, our mind here, our soul way over here. And rather than our problems fitting into this disease box that is the suggestion that when something hurts, when something makes us suffer, it's a broken part of us. It is bad genes that are manifesting themselves because our book of life is unfolding, or something's uh coming to get us from the outside, like a bad virus. And it we just we have this idea that when something hurts, when we suffer, when we're sick, that something's terribly wrong with us. Rather than that all being a beautiful language of the body that is all wise, that never gives us incorrect information about what our unmet needs are, right? So I just gradually was putting that together and seeing that big great big bird's eye view of what it is to be a human and what it is to suffer and what that all really means.

Michele Folan:

Yeah.

Karyn Shanks, MD:

Does that make sense?

Michele Folan:

It does, because what you're saying is these symptoms, those things that we feel are really messages. Correct.

Karyn Shanks, MD:

They're messages. It's wisdom of the body, is I uh is what I like to say, because it's that that gives it a reverent quality. And we don't have reverence for our body in that way. We don't even see ourselves as that. We see ourselves as here's a thing that must be fixed, here's a thing that I can't tolerate, I can't figure out on my own. It needs to be fixed. I'm going to give it to this expert over here who claims to have the solution for me, who sees me in a very particular way, who sees me as a body and a body as a machine composed of parts. Because that's the foundation of Western medicine when it began to evolve it back in the 1600, 1700s. Yeah.

Michele Folan:

I I this is this is really resonating with me. And it's all wrong. It's a wrong way to look at look at who we are and what we are. Karen, we're going to take a quick break and we come back. I want to talk about the science of healing. Peptides aren't voodoo, they're real science. They're short chains of amino acids your body already makes, just not as efficiently as you age. And it's not just GLP1. There are peptides for longevity, anti-aging, skin, lean muscle, sleep, and recovery. But here's the key: peptides don't replace a healthy lifestyle. You still need protein, whole food, strength training, good sleep, and stress management. Peptides simply enhance the results of the work you're already doing. That's why I partnered with a peptide resource, a trusted medical team using evidence-based protocols and high-quality formulations. If you're doing all the things right and still feel stuck, peptides might be the supportive tool you've been missing. Check out the link in the show notes, create an account so that you can see all the peptides available. All right, we're back. With your work, Karyn, you bring together the fields of epigenetics, neuroplasticity, and also trauma physiology. And I want to back up because we've used these terms like epigenetics and neuroplasticity on this show before. And I don't think I've ever had anyone explain what they truly are and how they're connected in the healing process. Can you explain this a little bit? Sure. And we can make it really simple.

Karyn Shanks, MD:

And I think it's some there are concepts that anybody can grasp and probably new on some level were true. Epigenetics is the idea that our gene expression is not fixed. So we all most of us and most of your listeners grew up during an era of the gene hypothesis. So when the genes were first discovered back in the mid-part of the 1900s, we began, we believed that that the information in those genes was our book of life. Like genetic destiny. What happened to our parents will happen to us. And the only thing to do is sit back and wait for the thing to happen, right? And what we know now, so and this happened around early 1990s, uh, the genome project, which many people have heard about, we we discovered that less than 1% of our genes were actively coding for proteins, which make all of our structure and function. And the rest of them, more than 99% of our genes, were regulatory genes. They were turning genes on and off, depending on the environment and all the circumstances surrounding those genes, which is every aspect of our lives, every thought, every feeling, every lifestyle habit has an effect on genetic expression. So what that says is we can change our outcomes. They're not set in stone. That largely how our genes express themselves, thus, how we operate as humans, is in our hands. It's modifiable. So that's why I often call epigenetics part of this science of directable human potential, because we have all this untapped potential inside our genome because we can turn genes on and off, but we can also direct the trajectory of that process to improve our lives.

Michele Folan:

It makes me feel like oftentimes we blame our genetics for our lot in life in terms of our health many times. And I so basically what you're saying is through lifestyle and other things, that we don't have to be a slave to our genetics. Correct. Got it.

Karyn Shanks, MD:

We are largely in control of our genetic destiny. That's what we've learned. That's the whole this whole field of epigenetics. But even though it's been around for like over 50 years, really coming to the fore in the last 20 years or so, it's not there in clinical practice of medicine. It's not in people's mindsets yet. It's so deeply like embedded in our being. Yeah. It's a powerful story. The old story of genetic determinism is just really tenacious.

Michele Folan:

Yeah, we let that be our narrative. Yeah.

Karyn Shanks, MD:

Yes.

unknown:

Yeah.

Karyn Shanks, MD:

And part of it is that medicine still propagates that understanding because I think and I think a huge part of it is that it's one of the foundations of Western modern medicine. And it's been hugely profitable. And it's really hard to let go of. Yeah. But if we know it, you and me and your audience know it, we can separate ourselves from that dependency on the narratives of Western medicine and begin to practice, uh, exercise those practices that help us bust out of that narrative and that limitation to being well.

Michele Folan:

How do we bust out of the narrative when there's trauma involved?

Karyn Shanks, MD:

That is really hard because, first of all, that's trauma itself. You are limited by this reality. Your genes are your story, right? That's traumatizing. That is a traumatizing cultural narrative. You are composed of parts that are separate: mind, body, spirit. That's traumatizing. We disconnect from the true nature of who we are, who we know we are. We disconnect from our feelings. We don't even pay attention to our feelings. What was your original question?

Michele Folan:

So yeah, how do we well? Because yeah, trauma, trauma is going to is is going to tell us a whole nother narrative.

Karyn Shanks, MD:

Yes, it is. It's because with unresolved trauma, and maybe we should define trauma real quickly because a lot of times misunderstand a lot of people misunderstand what is really meant. It's not just those big bad events that happen to you. Trauma happens to some extent to us all. So it is, it's things that happened, and I think if we can focus on childhood, things that happened that were did not meet our needs, our primary needs that were not repaired, or it's things that didn't happen that should have happened without repair. And in order for a young child to manage that kind of uh situation, they disconnect from themselves. Just quick example: the two primary needs of humans are connection and authenticity of being who we are. So, as small children, obviously our survival depends on the connection to our primary caregivers. So, so often, and probably all of us have had to do this to some extent, even if we had the most loving parents on the planet, is we had to trade who we actually were for that connection, that vital connection that literally kept us alive at that time. So, like, you know, we became quiet, we learned we couldn't express certain feelings, we dimmed our light, we weren't as loud and enthusiastic, we, whatever it was that we had to give away in order to secure that connection. So that's what I that's what I'm talking about. And so then those disconnects and those beliefs that we established very early on based on those traumatic experiences, those can operate unconsciously and direct our lives in ways we don't want, limiting beliefs, you know, limiting ideas about what's possible, that uh feelings of unworthiness, all that.

Michele Folan:

And can those feelings make us sick?

Karyn Shanks, MD:

Absolutely, because it drives there, those are all drivers of survival biology, the autonomic nervous system, uh, which is responsible for a lot of the things most of us can identify as being a part of our, you know, and we might call it high stress or overwhelm or or or whatever, whatever we are we are calling it, but it's a a lot of energy and resources are put toward keeping us safe. And when that is persistent, when it goes on too long, we can blow through internal resources and no longer have the resilience or robustness to feel really good. Our our biology prioritizes safety over everything else. So when we're highly stressed or feeling overwhelmed or burned out or scared, all of those resources are going to prioritize keeping putting us in a place of safety, however that needs to happen. And then those those resources and energy aren't available for anything else. So not only can we become sick because we're not supported in the way we need to be, but our potential as humans is limited as well.

Michele Folan:

And I find, particularly with my audience, our age group, you know, 50 plus, 55 plus. We've got adult kids, and I always say, bigger kids, bigger problems. We've right, Dr. Shanks laughs, but you know it's true. You know, we're the sandwich generation, we're taking care of our parents. We may still be working full-time, we're maybe managing grandchildren at this point. Uh, there's maybe financial issues, but whatever it is, there is this chronic stress that that I think shows up in in a lot of different ways. How do we use, I guess, neuroplasticity or how do we facilitate healing when we've got all this underlying stuff? Yeah.

Karyn Shanks, MD:

Well, first is to know that you're operating according to a limited narrative or a limiting, limiting story. Many people don't realize that what they're thinking, what they believe for sure, what they've been taught, what they're, you know, the the belief systems of their families and communities and culture, that they're all stories, which means we made them up. We made them up. And that's what the human brain does. So we can it's so it's important to understand that that is true. There, of course, are stories that are very supportive. They're very they uh uh they open up our all of our healing potential and the potential for being the best of who we can be. But there are many stories that are very limiting, and some of them come from personal trauma, some of it's you know, cultural trauma. So the I think the first step is to realize that that in fact is true and that our stories should support us and ennoble us and lead us toward healing. If they don't, they there's something very wrong. And we have the authority, each one of us, to look those stories straight in the eye and invite a new story to come in. And I don't, I don't think people often, especially the big, you know, tenacious stories, this the big cultural stories, some people don't realize they get to do that. We get to do that with everything. We can scrutinize every story. And the more entrenched they are, the more they really deserve our our attention. And then, you know, even that's that's hard to do. So that that's all hard to do, and it's it's hard to um unravel old stories and create and and create new ones. But we can sort of jump past the hurdle of how limiting the old stories can be because they are, and the more uh scared we are, the more traumatized and overwhelmed and stressed we're feeling, the harder it is to do that work. But we can invite in a new story and practice it every day without even believing it, and it can start to um permeate our thinking.

Michele Folan:

Yeah. So I I'm sitting here and I'm I'm nodding because I'm I'm thinking we have to first identify that we know that that is that old narrative, that story is what's holding us back, making us feel sick, tired, like chronic stress. And then it's almost like you're saying we're manifesting, but you're it's almost as if we're manifesting a new story to tell ourselves. And can that be our self-fulfilling prophecy?

Karyn Shanks, MD:

Sure. If we let it stagnate, if we let it, because even a new story that feels better, feels robust, feels like it's moving us in a better direction, is probably going to have its own limitations, right? So we have to constantly be checking in with ourselves. How do we feel? How does this land? Are our needs being met? Do I need to shift this story? Is there something new to add to it? And that's daily check-ins. That's being our witness. That's why in the book, when I get to the section on our practices to call in all this beautiful uh potential we may not know we have. So um we'd have to constantly be checking in on the validity of our stories. And the number one foundational practice that I recommend in my book as part of our recovery is learning to be present to ourselves, to present time to what's going on around us. Because without that self-observation and checking in, we won't even know how to manage and direct our stories.

Michele Folan:

When you are with a patient and you're digging in, you're you've got you've got some time and you're you're having these conversations with patients. How do you get to the point where you can pull this stuff out of someone so that you can figure out what it is that has been holding them back?

Karyn Shanks, MD:

You know, I think the process starts with my intake questionnaires, which are, I mean, it must be 50 pages. There's so much information. There's a timeline from birth to present time. And as people are doing that, even though it's such a tall order and it can be a real pain to do all this paperwork, in the process of doing that, they start to put together things in their own mind, like, oh, oh my gosh, this happened to me at that age. How that might connect to some aspect of what's going on today. You know, they just they start putting things together themselves. And then when I visit with them for the first time, and I have my practice structured so that there are no time constraints. Literally, I have a block of four hours. We don't always use all that time, but they then have they're invited to tell their whole story no matter how long it takes.

unknown:

Wow.

Karyn Shanks, MD:

And their stories are often very, very long and very convoluted. And many people have never had a chance to tell their whole story before. So I learn a lot during that time, and they do too. And then it's just a it's a a process of what I'll call compassionate inquiry into, you know, things they say that suggest to me that there might be a a little, you know, a pain point there, uh, a the possibility of something traumatic having happened. There's uh they show me what stories might be stuck and circulating around. Yeah. So in in the process of that, that um storytelling, uh, there are often a lot of signs that there are other things operating. There are stories operating, there are beliefs that are holding them back. And then I can gently sort of bring it up and and then we go where they're ready to go.

Michele Folan:

Okay. And we have this fix it mentality.

Karyn Shanks, MD:

Yeah.

Michele Folan:

So some patients may be like, I just need you to fix me.

Karyn Shanks, MD:

Right.

Michele Folan:

You're the doctor, fix me. And so how much participation do they have in this process where they have to some of that fixing has to come from their internal drive?

Karyn Shanks, MD:

Most people, by the time they see me, they've already slept. Through the cracks. They have some chronic complex issue going on. They've slipped through the cracks. They're already disill beginning to know that they're disillusioned with what people have been able to do for them so far. So they're already shifting their mindset a bit. But I some I often do have to teach them about the storytelling brain. And we have, you know, like that that's one of the education pieces we have to start with, and the role of trauma in our biology and gene expression, and how that and all the stresses and demands of life can shift us into an equilibrium of illness, suffering, pain, whatever it is, and that we are operating at an equilibrium. And you don't fix an equilibrium, it's just how nature works. That we organisms operate at the very best of their ability given present circumstances, resources, energy, knowledge.

Michele Folan:

What are three small but powerful steps listeners can take right now to begin moving toward wholeness? Because I'm sure there are people listening right now that feel like they have been totally dismissed by their health care providers.

Karyn Shanks, MD:

Just because you've been dismissed by your health care provider, which we've all had that experience, I'm sure. Yes. You don't have to dismiss yourself. So what I want people to do and what I teach them to do as sort of the initiation into a whole new way of managing themselves and their health is to become their witness, to forge a relationship with themselves. So they're not dismissing themselves. So they are paying attention to what's going on inside them. They're paying attention to the feelings and the sensations and the energy states and the symptoms of their bodies. And they're checking in in a way that isn't asking them to be fixed, but it's a way of checking in in a non-judgmental way, in a curious way, so that they can begin to get to know what is going on inside them. Because so many people are living such high-paced, distracted lives of overwhelm and lack of rest. People just aren't checking in. And we aren't taught in our culture to check in until we ask for it as a suffering adult, you know? Right. And we're also, especially as women, we're taught to put everyone else's needs before our own. And that our value is based on the ability to do that successfully. It's really hard to learn to be a person who checks in with themselves when all that is going on, right? So it's important to start a daily practice of that. And that can be really simple. It can be really simple at first and powerful, and then lead to more as you as you're ready for it and need it. But one of my favorite simple practices is first I understand that there is a me here that needs my attention, needs my attention a hundred percent. And during the course of the day, I have a feel, let's say fear is rising up for something. I can just check in and I try to check in in a way that's very tangible because that's what our primitive brain, our brain that is designed to keep us alive and to help us survive and bring us to safety. That's what that part of our brain needs. It needs tangible. So I both put my hands firmly over my heart and I say, I'm right here. I'm right here. So though I already feel better just doing that. You know, my dogs just went off and interrupted my my this podcast and I got super stressed. And I'm just right here. I recognize how that made me feel. And then the next thing I like to add that to that is what do you need? What do you need? And you know, sometimes nobody's asked us that question in a very long time. But if we can get in the habit of asking that every day, like I just right now, as I'm feeling what's going on inside, and I ask that question, I just feel this like this heart opening, this like relaxation, like, oh, okay, my needs are important, my needs are seen. And we can do that for ourselves. And if you begin to do it every day and practice every day, it's like your body, your mind, your nervous system starts to trust you and to trust that you're checking in and that you are worthy of that kind of care. That's huge.

Michele Folan:

Yeah. If that's how you do that, you know that's really hard for women to do.

Karyn Shanks, MD:

It was hard for me. It felt so awkward. Like, ooh, ooh, but I just I had a therapist who taught that to me, uh, a trauma therapist and who practiced a therapeutic approach for trauma called compassionate inquiry. And the first thing we do is check in and notice what's there without judgment, not fixing because we want to understand what's going on is the wisdom of our bodies, whether it's a an emotion or a symptom of some kind, pain, whatever. We just want to we want to look at it with curiosity and not jump in and try to fix it. That's the first step. So we can understand what it's trying to tell us. And then we ask, what do you need? And sometimes the answer doesn't come. So I always tell people, ask what you ask the feeling, sensation, whatever, what you need, and then let it go. Because very likely that answer is going to show up. It's going to drop right in your lap at some point during the day while you're driving, while you're, you know, showering, while you're shopping, whatever. There's going to be something that drops in as an answer to that question.

Michele Folan:

You know, what you're really asking people to do, I guess I'm maybe paraphrasing, it's really about being more intuitive about yourself. It's like, you know, it's we we we go, go, go, go, go, and we do do do for other people, but we don't take that time to really check in with ourselves. And I think this is so powerful. That's right.

Karyn Shanks, MD:

But it's a muscle. That intuition is a muscle, and we have to work it. We have to get our reps in. And if we start showing up every day, even in that simple little practice I just showed you that I like to do, you're gonna develop that intuition. And it's pretty soon, boom, you're gonna you're you're feeling something, boom, you're right there listening.

Michele Folan:

It'd be really helpful if we would learn these skills before we turn 61, like I am.

Karyn Shanks, MD:

Imagine if we taught every child to check in.

Michele Folan:

Yeah, I know. You know, it's to me, it's self-care. It's it's this is all just an extension of really good self-care.

Karyn Shanks, MD:

Yeah.

Michele Folan:

And you've written multiple books on healing. And I I we're gonna talk about unbroken, but you also did a book on the wisdom of COVID-19, and I have no idea what that's about, but I have to ask.

Karyn Shanks, MD:

Oh my gosh. That whole thing, the response to COVID drove me absolutely out of my mind. Because, and it was more like the way we chose to look at it, which we which Western medicine looked at it in a very predictable way. A bad, bad, bad virus came and got us. Okay. It has a lot of that, it's a virus, it's very good at survival. But the truth about getting sick from microorganisms is that it's a relationship between the host, the person who gets sick, and that organism. It's a relationship. So, one thing we learned very early in the pandemic is that the people who got the sickest went to the hospital and died, were people who were already profoundly vulnerable to the effects of the virus because of other chronic health conditions that they already had. And you know that that we have a pandemic of chronic self-inflicted chronic illness. Yep. And that make that makes people so vulnerable. So I was so upset that the focus was all on the virus and it wasn't on the you know, the observation that human vulnerability may have been the more important part of that pandemic and the devastation of it all. So I had to write a book.

Michele Folan:

I just had to read as she pounds her desk. You know what though? You know what though, my husband and I had talked about this, and and we never took the opportunity to talk to people during the pandemic about get outside, exercise, prevention is key. You know, yeah, what's the lesson learned here about this type of virus? And you know, maybe it won't be the last, but was there a missed opportunity there to have some clear messaging on don't be this person that puts yourself at horrible risk? I mean, if you're 92 years old, I get it. But we we have a choice now at the age of 55, 60, 65, to change the narrative on how we want our health outcomes, right?

Karyn Shanks, MD:

And change our bodies and literally change how resilient and robust we can be in the face of any challenge. Yes. We can do that. I don't care what's going on with you or how you're suffering, we can improve your circumstances and move you to an equilibrium of resilience and robustness. And we we know how to do it. We can you you're the people you work with, whether it's your coach, your nutritionist, your doc, your whatever, we can show you, show you that roadmap. And then you can pick and choose what you want to work on today.

Michele Folan:

Love it. I didn't think we were gonna go this route, but I but I I it was a detour, but when I was preparing, I was like, oh, I gotta ask her about this book because I was really intrigued. All right, back to Unbroken. You you wrote this book. What did you learn from this personally that surprised you the most?

Karyn Shanks, MD:

I knew I saw the story arc of the, you know, the why did this happen? Why do we feel broken when we're sick? Why do we slip through the cracks? Why do we feel stuck? And so I saw that whole start story arc and then into what's the truth? What's the current science that shows us we have all this untapped potential? And there is a roadmap that can help us shift our genetic expression, shift our stories, shift all our life outcomes. I saw that, but as I really got into it and did my research and and put the details in, I was really amazed at how much trauma is part of everything. It's even part of, you know, we can be re so ready. We're ready to change, we understand epigenetics and neuroplasticity, we understand our limiting stories, and we see the the you know, the more supporting, empowering stories, and we're ready to go, and we choose our things, and maybe it's a little, we want to do diet and movement or whatever. And then we start to try to change something, and we're we're hit between the eyes by maybe what that thing we're giving up or we're trying to change actually did for us. Like food is really, and you you would you know this very well. Uh, let's give up the cookies and the sugar. It's not till we drop them out that many of us learn that we were using that as a drug. We were treating our depression, our, you know, our wanting to feel more energetic and alive, our what, whatever, whatever the thing is. So just how much trauma plays into both the genesis of illness, but also is often a roadblock to our being being able to change even the simplest things. Yeah. So we always have to be when we're working with folks, we we have to work with them in a very individualistic way, in a very personalized way. So we're meeting them where we're they're at, and we understand all the players and why they are where they're they are right now, which includes their trauma, their limiting stories that um are trauma signatures, um, and be prepared to help them with that.

Michele Folan:

Yeah, I love this. You know, would you be able to share uh a story from one of your patients that continues to stay with you today?

Karyn Shanks, MD:

Yeah, I I've had lots of fascinating clients and yeah, it really cool stories, but one that comes to mind because the strategy for her moving from a very dysfunctional place to a very exciting healed place all had almost a hundred percent to do with uh helping her find the appropriate inroad for her. She was uh early 30s, had a one-year-old baby, um, husband was deployed overseas, full-time job with toxic elements, total overwhelm, fatigue, eating crappily because she didn't have the energy to pull healthy meals together when she got home. Just not sleeping, you know, just this huge. Now, could I have identified 10 to 15 things that needed to be fit, you know, needed to be shifted around and improved upon? Yes. Could she have done any of them? No. So one thing that came out while I was talking to her is that she loves to sew and she was a master seamstress and had a whole room in her house devoted to sewing, all the machines and all the things she could sew in her sleep. So her her only prescription for that for after that first encounter was to start to sew. So, because what I wanted to do was get her out of her head and her suffering, I wanted to get her in her body because I knew that wisdom was right inside her. She'd know what to do. And so she started coming home from work, feeding her baby, putting baby to bed, and sewing. And she got lost in it. And it sort of put her back in her body. She was able to get out of her head, she was unwinding. She, and I think we followed up two to three weeks later, and we had, you know, labs to go over and stuff. And she was like a completely new person. Like she, while sitting there, figured some things out on her own. And she had quit her job. She was in the process of applying for jobs at that time. She yeah, she saw the she saw the where she needed to go. And she was also feeling better for that. She was sleeping better, her energy was up. She and that that was just an incredible example of how important it is to meet people where they're at and not throw a protocol at them because everybody needs their own way. And also they have the wisdom they need. I mean, they need help. We all need we all need a team, right? We all need someone to show us some of the stuff we don't know. But um, we all have the wisdom to know at least what direction we need to go.

Michele Folan:

Oh, I love that.

Karyn Shanks, MD:

That was a great experience that taught me a lot.

Michele Folan:

Yeah. How's she doing now?

Karyn Shanks, MD:

I haven't talked to her in a few years because she like, you know, she did great and flew away. I hope she's doing well. I she was doing very well when at the last last visit. Great.

Michele Folan:

Now, in terms of you as a doctor and I think slash therapist, because of all the incredible work you do, what is one of your own self-care non-negotiables that keeps you grounded and whole? I know, I know. I mean, you probably have a whole long list. What's what's your main what's your main one?

Karyn Shanks, MD:

Well, the first thing I do in the morning every single day, before I do not look at my phone, I don't look at email, I don't look at news. I I get up, I grab my cup of coffee, I do drink coffee, I love coffee, and I think there are health benefits to it. I know I'm being defensive, I'm not my coffee and I go to my meditation chair, and I have this beautiful spot uh with big windows looking out over nature, and I do my meditation, which is a mishmash of a bunch of things I've pulled together over the years that make me feel soothed and settled and connected. I do, I write, I have a journal, so there's always a little bit of writing that's involved, but that's how I start the day. Sets the tone, it connects me to me and my like authentic self so that I can bring that to everything I do. It's really important. That's an important form uh source of grounding for me. So that's how I start my day before anything else. I don't let anything get in the way of it.

Michele Folan:

You know, I think we all should listen to Dr. Karyn Shanks here because you said something that I think is some something that's really tough for people to do, but it's a good practice to start, is don't get on the damn phone first thing in the morning because it it it distracts you from doing some of that inner work, and then then you're off to the races, right? Then you can open your email and you're then you're then you've totally blown.

Karyn Shanks, MD:

That's how they're designed, right? They're designed to like bring you in and keep you sucked in.

Michele Folan:

I love that advice. And I I just had to add that little bit at the end. Dr. Karyn Shanks, where can listeners find your new book and connect with your work?

Karyn Shanks, MD:

Thank you. So my new book, which is called Unbroken, Reclaim Your Wholeness, will be available at all book major booksellers on 111125. So that's coming up. And I'm really excited about this book. And yeah, it it will take everything we discussed today and sort of flesh it out and make it really accessible and practical and easy for you. Because if it's easy, we'll do it. And if we do it, it leads to a success, which leads to another success. So I mean, yeah, it's really it's simple practices, micro practices, is what I call them. And then my website is my hub, www.caren shanksmd.com. That's k-ar-y-n-s-h-a-n-k-s-md.com. And I do have a small presence on social media. I'm I post there. I'm not, I don't want to even open the app. It's a necessary evil, Karyn. Sorry. I know, I know. But my website will lead you to all of my work.

Michele Folan:

All right. I'm gonna put that in the show notes. And for anyone, and not even just for yourself, but maybe you have a friend or a family member that really could use some of these tools to help them feel more whole. Um, I think this would be a great gift. We're getting into the holiday season. So I'd love suggesting books because particularly self-help books, because I think they're really given with love.

Karyn Shanks, MD:

Absolutely. My this is this was written with so much love. Yeah.

Michele Folan:

Yes. Dr. Karyn Shanks, thank you for being a guest today on Asking for a Friend. Thank you so much. Thank you for listening. Please rate and review the podcast where you listen. And if you'd like to join the Asking for a Friend community, click on the link in the show notes to sign up for my weekly newsletter where I share midlife wellness and fitness tips, insights, my favorite finds, and recipes.