Health, Fitness & Personal Growth Tips for Women in Midlife: Asking for a Friend

Ep.176 Mom Rediscovered: Midlife Identity, Body Image, and the Power of Self-Compassion

• Michele Henning Folan • Episode 176

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Ever feel like you’re doing everything for everyone—and slowly disappearing from your own life?

In this raw and relatable episode, host Michele Folan sits down with writer and coach Jen Butler, author of the forthcoming memoir Mom Rediscovered, to talk about the messy, brave work of finding yourself again—after kids, after moves, and after the coping habits that promised relief but delivered fog.

Jen opens up about her seven-year alcohol-free journey, her decisive breakup with diet culture, and the “soft rock bottom” that sparked it all. We unpack:

  • How sobriety led to radical self-compassion
  • The dopamine “easy buttons” women often turn to—and how to replace them
  • What curating your social media inputs can do for your inner weather
  • How strength training, protein, and bone health became part of her midlife healing
  • The simple life-circle exercise to spot what’s not working

Therapy threads through Jen’s story as a practical, stigma-free tool for connecting the dots between motherhood, partnership, and identity. She shares how writing the hardest scenes—hangovers, shame, and all—became deeply healing.

If you’re curious about gray-area drinking, breaking up with diet culture, or building a midlife you actually want to live, this conversation will meet you where you are and gently nudge you forward.

👉 Preorder Mom Rediscovered, share this episode with a friend who needs it, and leave a review to help more women find this space.

https://jenbutlerwrites.com/
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_________________________________________
1:1 health and nutrition coaching or Faster Way - Reach me anytime at mfolanfasterway@gmail.com

If you’re doing “all the right things” and still feel stuck, it may be time to look deeper. I’ve partnered with EllieMD, a trusted telehealth platform offering modern solutions for women in midlife—including micro-dosed GLP-1 peptide therapy—to support metabolic health and longevity. https://elliemd.com/michelefolan

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🎤 In addition to coaching, I speak to women’s groups, moderate health panel discussions, and bring experts together for real, evidence-based conversations about midlife health. Let's connect for your next event!

OsteoCollective osteoporosis resources and community link: https://app.osteocollective.com/invitation?code=BE98G9

Transcripts are created with AI and may not be perfectly accurate.

Disclaimer: This podcast is for general informational purposes only and does not constitute the practice of medicine, nursing, or other professional healthcare services. It is not a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. Always seek the advice of your qualified healthcare provider with any questions regarding a medical condition.

Michele Folan:

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Jen Butler:

Oh my gosh, Michele. Thank you. Thank you. That introduction just has me all up in my feelings already.

Michele Folan:

Well, it's so fun to get together with you. And you know what I love about doing this podcast is that you and I have never lost touch. We've we've kind of communicated over the years since you did that first podcast. And you know, I think maybe the best place to start, just in case listeners hadn't listened to that first podcast, just to share a little bit about your background and what brought you to writing.

Jen Butler:

Oh my gosh. All right. So, yes, because that was a couple of years ago now, I think, that we did that podcast, right? As I was navigating my life coaching journey and my alcohol-free journey. And when this book was still just a dream and a goal, but not something physical that I can now hold in my hands, which is still very surreal. So I have always wanted to write a book. I have journaled voraciously since I was in sixth grade. It just was something that was always a goal. I always wanted to hold my own book in my hands. But I never knew what story I wanted to tell. I knew that I wanted to do some sort of nonfiction thing, kind of stemming from my journaling, telling, sharing my story, but I didn't know what my story was. And it really wasn't until I started my alcohol-free journey, and you and I talked about that long ago, but I can I can also touch on that again. It's now been over seven years that I've been alcohol free. And once I started that journey, and certainly once I got to a point where I became a non-drinker, I thought, oh, now I have something that I really want to share because I'm very proud of this journey. I will never say that I think everybody needs to stop drinking, but for me, that journey was about conquering something that was holding me back and regaining control over something that had control over me and really rediscovering myself in that. So when I first started writing this book, it was really about my alcohol-free journey. And what I found was I kind of stalled out and I felt really weird about that for a while. Like, why can't I finish this project? I've wanted to write a book forever. And it's because I realized that that alcohol-free journey is just a part of my story. It's just one part of the story that I wanted to tell. And there's more to me than that. And so that's what this whole book is about, really is about my motherhood journey. And alcohol and quitting alcohol plays a huge role in that. But also I touch upon diet culture and breaking up with diet culture. That's been a huge part of my journey. I talk about losing my professional identity and how hard that was for me. I really touch on all the aspects of what motherhood has been in my life. And, you know, there's no finish line. I'm certainly not done with the work, but I had enough of an arc to be able to share my story. And I just, it's so wonderful and surreal that I'm coming on and talking about it with you today.

Michele Folan:

When we first met, so you guys can't see Jen's background, but she has a plethora of books. You've always been a voracious reader. Yes. And I remember you had hinted about a book when when we first spoke. But you did you did start writing because you you built this really strong community through your Substack, and which was called Best Mom Never, which I I love. How did that space shape your voice as a writer and a mom advocate?

Jen Butler:

Yep. So I I love this question. I love my Substack. I still post there regularly. It's called Best Mom Never. And that really, the Substack has given me more confidence to really just share myself authentically. So I go on there and I just I talk about everything from, you know, something that something very small that happened in my day to my entire book journey. So my Substack really helped me find and focus my voice, I would say. And it really, the comments that I started getting back from readers and the community that is formed around that made me feel like, oh, you know what? There are people who are resonating with my story. There are people who say, oh, I'm not the only one that feels that way. And that really fueled my motivation and desire to finish my book and get it out into the world.

Michele Folan:

All right. How long then did it take you to write it?

Jen Butler:

So I will answer this question, and anyone who's listening who aspires to write a book will feel very daunted by my answer. But I'm gonna be honest. So this book from, you know, really when I first started writing scenes that are in the finished version has been between five and seven years, I would say, which seems like forever. I know that, and it seems so daunting. But now that the book is done, it makes me realize I couldn't have done it in any shorter of a time frame because I needed to be working on it as I was going through my alcohol-free journey. And I needed to be writing those scenes when I was feeling those things and when I was in it. But I also needed to complete my arc. So I needed to do more living. I couldn't have ended this book in 2019 when I stopped drinking or 2018. I needed to do more living and figure out what my actual arc was. So that's why it took so long. It also took a while because, as I said, I sort of stopped and started. I thought it was just gonna be a quit lit story, so just a story about quitting drinking. Then I realized I wanted it to be more, but I didn't, I hadn't done that living yet. So I thought, well, maybe it'll be like a self-help memoir hybrid kind of thing. And I got some very precious and important advice from my friend Zibi Owens, who is, well, she's everything. She is a voracious reader, podcast host, publisher, bookstore owner. She's a she's a wonderful and influential figure in the book space. And she said to me, Don't try to play the market. Your story as it is is worth sharing right from your heart. And when that was sort of like a permission slip. I'm a rule follower, Michele. You know this about me. Yeah. So it's almost like that advice was the permission slip I needed to let go of the idea of trying to do something fancy, self-help, memoir, hybrid, and really just write my story. And I try to do the same thing on my Substack and just be real and offer something that I hope someone will see themselves in and that will help them feel like they are not alone.

Michele Folan:

Do you feel like that kind of theme is part of your own rediscovery journey?

Jen Butler:

100%.

Michele Folan:

Yeah.

Jen Butler:

Yep. I became so isolated when I had kids. It really was, and it just so happened, and I share this in the book, that um my husband and I moved a lot when we have kids, and when we first had kids, because he changed jobs a lot. We also moved from a city to the suburbs because we wanted that experience once we had our first our first baby. And I, in the course of all those moves, I lost touch with friends, I lost community, and I became increasingly isolated as a new and exhausted mom. So the really the antidote to that was connection. And that, and at first for me, it was, you know, virtual. I had a lot of really important virtual connections in my life. But then I also made some really important friends in certain stages of my life. And but all those people, whether they were virtual friends or real life friends, helped me realize oh, I'm not the only one that's struggling here. I'm not the only one that's exhausted. I'm not the only one that feels like simply being a mom is not fulfilling enough, but at the same time has lost my professional identity. And that has all really helped. And that's what I'm now trying to do for other women by offering my story.

Michele Folan:

We're gonna take a quick break, and when we come back, I want to talk about motherhood and its many layers. A diagnosis of osteoporosis can feel scary and overwhelming, but it doesn't have to be the end of your story. The truth is you do have tools and resources to build stronger bones and protect your future. That's why I've partnered with Osteo Collective, an incredible platform dedicated to helping women navigate osteoporosis with confidence. From expert-led workouts and educational resources to a supportive community of women just like you. The Osteo Collective gives you the knowledge and encouragement to take back control of your bone health. And here's the best part: you can try it free for one week. Just click the link in the show notes to start your trial today and discover how to move forward with strength and hope. We are back. Before we went on break, you started talking about these many layers. All the things that we are. So caretaker, professional, worker sometimes, uh, partner, friend. But we're those things to a lot of people. And we get lost maybe along the way because we stop being that to ourselves.

Jen Butler:

Ugh. Yes. Yeah? Yes. And we fall to the bottom of our own priority list. Yeah.

Michele Folan:

When did you finally discover that that's what had been happening with you? Ugh, that's it.

Jen Butler:

Makes me sad to think about it because I wish I'd realized it so much sooner, you know, but I think probably every mom can say the same thing. It really was when I first I'm gonna phrase this awkwardly, but that's on purpose. When I first started stopping drinking. Okay. I know that sounds weird, but I um, and and I know we've we've talked about my alcohol-free journey before, but for those who don't know, so I was what I call a gray area drinker. And what that means is that I was stuck in the space between take it or leave it drinking, totally uncomplicated relationship with alcohol, and a full-blown capital P problem. I was in this murky fog in the middle where I had a really hard time going for more than one or two days without drinking. And once I started drinking, I had a really hard time stopping at one or two drinks and not having more. So I finally kind of reached my what I call my soft rock bottom. So I never needed professional help, but I could not stop on my own. And I reached out to a group of anonymous women online, and I talk about this in the book. The book actually opens with the moment that I reached out for help and asked them for support as I attempted to complete dry January. And that was really the start of my journey. Once I started getting into dry January and the drinking fog, the grogginess cleared, and I was able to actually look at myself and kind of take stock of where I was in my life for the first time in years, that's when I realized, oh, I'm not in great shape here because I have been putting my partner before me, my kids before me, everything before what I actually need to take care of myself. And I've been using alcohol to cover up the discomfort that I felt about that and to numb the fact that I was putting myself last. So that's really when I realized it. And as I continued on my alcohol-free journey, and the other thing I want to say is when I started that journey, I did not start with the intent to quit drinking. I started that journey with the intent to regain control over drinking. For me, that became wanting to be a non-drinker. Doesn't happen for everybody, that's fine. But that's where I ended up. Um, and so it was really at that point that I realized oh, this is not how I want to be showing up. And if I want to show up differently, I need to start prioritizing myself and asserting my needs. And it took a lot of time and a lot of practice to actually do that consistently and without guilt.

Michele Folan:

Um, so Jen's dogs are upset about something.

Jen Butler:

They went to daycare yesterday. I thought they would be tired and they're not.

Michele Folan:

There's like a squirrel outside or the Amazon driver. I'm not sure which. Seriously. Which is usually both. Yeah. So every I'm not I'm not editing that out because again, I don't disregard the dog. I don't care. Dirty hair, I don't care. We just we're just we're we're winging it today, Jen.

Jen Butler:

I'm locking them in the closet next time, Michelle. That's okay.

Michele Folan:

Don't worry about it. I've I've got two dogs, but they are crated right now because they they go insane. So, what do you think the biggest unexpected gift then was of quitting drinking?

Jen Butler:

I love this question too, because you know, there are certain things you expect, right? When you when you stop drinking, or even if you cut back on drinking, you expect your skin to look better, you expect to sleep better, and all of that happened. And that was all wonderful. But for me, the thing that I did not expect was the self-compassion that I gained from stopping drinking. I just I really started liking myself again and started being so much nicer to myself. And that just felt so good. And you know, it's not necessarily our default, is it, to be nice to ourselves? We're so hard on ourselves. And for me, quitting drinking, achieving that, gaining the clarity that came along with that, starting to reprioritize myself just really made me like myself again and just be nice to myself again. And that felt so good and continues to feel good. That has not gotten old.

Michele Folan:

Do you see parallels though between how moms use alcohol and how we use other coping mechanisms? It could be shopping, it could be absolutely.

Jen Butler:

It's all about the dopamine, right? Yeah. Yep. Online shopping for sure. Even, you know, I used to to uh read like Us Weekly Magazine and try to get like little dopamine hits from there. I mean, you never know. Of course, food also is a huge one. Social media is huge, and I still fall prey to that. Like, if I need a little boost, I'll go on and see like, oh, who's liked my most recent post? And that lights up the same reward circuit in our brain as alcohol or chocolate or whatever. So there are there are so many different coping mechanisms that we use, so many different Glenn and Joel calls them easy buttons. And, you know, I'm not here to say like we're not allowed to have any easy buttons. Of course, we're all gonna use our easy buttons, but there may be some that really are more damaging than others. And for me, alcohol was one that just needed to go. It was just too damaging. So I still eat Nutella, I still scroll social media, but I also am able to do it more mindfully. And for example, on social media, I've curated my feed. I realized that I was following things, following certain accounts that just made me feel bad about myself. And so I stopped following those accounts, you know. So it's it's more of like a curated coping mechanism now than it used to be, but also just being aware that we're doing those things, right? And being aware, like I'm gonna pick up my phone, I'm gonna stroll for the next 20 minutes until my kids get home on the bus. And it it might not make me feel that great, actually. Like I can't expect to do this and feel really good afterwards, but you know what? I'm tired today. It's what I need in this moment, and that's also okay.

Michele Folan:

You also talk about breaking up with diet culture, which I think kind of goes hand in hand with this, right? I mean, yeah, yeah. And and I I too broke up with diet culture. And uh yeah, look at us. Oh, well, you know, because it was all wrong. It they they had it all wrong. Exactly.

Jen Butler:

It doesn't such I love you just when that's so simply, it's so true.

Michele Folan:

It doesn't work because it's just yeah, and yeah, I I watch I watch women who, you know, I think for me the biggest frustration, Jen, is how long is it gonna take me to lose the weight? Like, um, we're two weeks in, I don't see this working for me. And I'm going, it's because we're still mired in that diet culture of the 90s where we expected, you know, if we if we starved ourselves, we could lose a few pounds. Yep. Well, it doesn't work that way, that it would stay off, right? Like I know, it's not work for midlife. You you're if you starve yourself, you're just gonna shut down your metabolism. Yep.

Jen Butler:

Yeah. And and so Which is what happened to me, which was the last straw before I broke up with diet culture, which I talk about in the book.

Michele Folan:

Yeah. So let's talk about that a little bit. What was the defining moment that you said, okay, this is just not working?

Jen Butler:

So I in um 2018-19, I became a kickboxing instructor. Just a little part-time side hustle that was a really wonderful thing for me because as I said before, you know, I really needed more than just being a stay-at-home mom in my life. So I started teaching kickboxing, and that was wonderful. The gym was a it was a great kickboxing gym. The one thing though was that the women who went there were very focused on what their bodies look like and on dieting to achieve certain things. So, for example, you know, I someone told me at one point to stop putting cream or oat milk or whatever in my coffee. Like, you know, they were like, well, if you just cut that out, think about that. That's extra calories that you just won't be consuming. That kind of thing.

Michele Folan:

Yeah, and that takes all the joy out of life, too.

Jen Butler:

Exactly. Exactly. Yeah, I tried black coffee and I was like, this is terrible, but I felt like I needed to drink it black and ugh, never again. No offense to those who love black coffee. You do you. So working at that gym was a great experience in that it broke me out of stay-at-home motherhood and gave me my own thing, which was great, but it was not great in that I was surrounded by women who were very focused on dieting and their bodies and trying to fit their bodies into certain shapes that they just were not meant to be. But I fell for all of that. I was, you know, aiming for that bulging six-pack. I wanted the whole thing. And there was a woman who went through a very dramatic body transformation. And I asked her how she did it, and she said, Oh, I had this amazing nutritionist. You should reach out to her. And so I did. And when I met with this nutritionist, this was um at the start of 2020, this was like January 2020. And I met with her. I was wearing the smallest size clothes I'd ever worn, but I still felt, you know, like I didn't look the way I wanted to look. And I went into her and I was teaching kickboxing, so I was very fit. And I went into her office and she took some photos of me and she said, the first thing you need to know is that you are obese. And I believed her because I, you know, she was the nutritionist, right? She was the expert. So I guess I was obese. Okay. And she told me that I needed to lose, I think 15 pounds, she said. And that her plan that she was gonna put me on would have me lose that weight. And I thought, oh, okay. If I'm gonna, I'm gonna do this, I'm gonna lose these 15 pounds, and then I'll be happy. Then I'll be at the point where I wanna be, right? Because that's the trick of diet culture. If I just do this, then I'll be happy with the way I look, right?

Speaker 2:

Mm-hmm.

Jen Butler:

Her plan basically put my body into starvation mode. The first night I read my kids their bedtime story and I got up from my son's bed and I almost passed out. I lost five pounds in day one because I just was starving myself. Following her meal meal plan, I put it in quotes because it really was just like a starvation eating diet. I mean, basically, yeah. I mean, it was like kale with like five grape tomatoes and you know, I mean, it was just it was awful. I I was able to have one teaspoon of nut butter once a week. It was really ridiculous, Michele. But this is it though, right? Like if we're if we can't zoom out and look and say, this is insane. Of course I'm not doing this. If we're stuck in it, we do it. And so I followed that program. COVID happened, the you know what hit the fan, and I still followed her program. I did it for three months. So it was now uh March 2020 when I reached the end of the program. COVID was at like full tilt. Yeah. Um, it I mean, it the timing of all of it was insane. And I, so we had our final meeting virtually. I had weighed in that morning and I had lost the 15 pounds. And so I got on the call with her and I said, I did it. I'm at this weight. And she said, Okay, well, you know, you really need to lose like another five or six pounds because you still have, you still have a ways to go. And I um got off, I said, okay, thank you very much for for everything, you know, got off the call with her and unleashed a barrage of expletives, which I will not share here, but are in the book. And then I proceeded to walk downstairs into my pantry, open a new jar of almond, uh vanilla almond butter, and I ate the entire thing. And that was when I realized I am done with it. That was Jen's revenge tour, which is the tour to your pantry. Oh my god. It was my period stopped while I was working with her. It was, I look at photos of myself now from that last day, because I took the like the after photo, and I look awful, gaunt, awful. So anyway, all of this is to say that that was to answer your question, that was the moment where I realized F this. I am out of diet culture. This is absolutely ridiculous. If this is what I have to go through to get to a certain weight, and then only to be told it's not enough, forget it. I'm just gonna practice existing in my body the way that it is. It's COVID. We're all at home wearing our pajamas anyway, so forget it. I'll just see what happens. And what happened was I gained back those 15 pounds. I gained an additional 15 pounds. And then since then, I have really not succumbed to any diet culture stuff. I've just been working on my personal relationship with food and with eating and being in touch with my body and my hunger cues. And my body has taken up the shape that it always should have been.

Michele Folan:

Yeah, you know, here's the other thing too, and we don't have to, you know, get into the whole long-term story here. But if we would just focus on health from the inside out, so do what's right for our insides, it will start to reflect on the outside. And what I try to tell my clients, because most of them are in midlife, I would say most of my clients are probably 50 plus, if not 55 plus, that it's really about laying this healthy foundation for your 80s, 80-year-old self, your 90-year-old self. And if you're doing that, if you're lifting weights and you're eating the protein and doing all that, and I know we we talk about this all the time, you're you're doing you're doing the stuff. And you know, it's it's really about your biomarkers and and and those sorts of things. It's not about trying to fit into your genes that you wore in 2010. That ship sails.

Jen Butler:

Exactly. Yep. Just you know, you know, women, women who talk about being this is what I love about us is that I work with women who are like in a stage of life right before the stage of life that you work with them. I feel like they just, you know, it's like, come to me and then go to Michelle and you'll be all set. Um, so the women that I so I still teach fitness, I teach strength training classes and uh rebounder classes on a little miniature trampoline. And so the women that I work with at my fitness studio are generally in their 30s and 40s, some are in their early 50s as well. And, you know, when they're in there, especially the younger ones and they're talking about, you know, they've got to get their pre-baby body back. I usually zip it because it's not, you know, they're having their conversations. I'm not gonna insert myself into their conversations, but I'll take a moment here to say what I wish I always said to them, which is you can't get your pre-baby body back because you are in a post-baby body. You have had a baby. Your body forevermore is a post-baby body. So instead of trying to become the body that you had, embrace the body that you have now. And as you said, work from the inside out. Focus on connecting to your body now as it is now and doing what you need to do for yourself now instead of trying to be what you used to be because you simply are not. You are someone who has given birth. Your body has changed. You know, for the women you work with, it's like you are now in menopause. You're you can't get your pre-menopausal body back or what, you know, like you just you can't. You are in a different body. So embrace it, connect to it.

Michele Folan:

You know, I'm getting ready to do the season changeover of my closets. Yes, yes. Right? And and you it's hoodie season. I'm so excited. I know it it was 50 some degrees this morning. There are things in my closet that I know darn well will never fit me again. They're just not going to because my body has changed. Shoot, it's and it's it's okay to hang on to that stuff, but just have that realistic expectation that maybe they'll they're not gonna fit. And it it's it it may free your soul to get rid of some of those things. So I'm just that's just my little aside.

Jen Butler:

Exactly. It's it's about just, you know, giving yourself that grace and just meeting yourself where you are. You know, one of the first things I always say when I start a fitness class and we're just doing the active stretch to warm up is I say to everybody, take this time to connect to your body because we are constantly told that we need to be different, look different, and and disconnect from our bodies. You know, diet culture disconnects you from your body and your hunger cues. Drinking disconnects you from your body because it numbs your brain. And so I always say to everybody, just get into your body, like put your own body on, like a skin, you know, really get in there and connect and feel how you are feeling today. Not how you felt yesterday, not how you want to feel, how you are feeling right now in this moment. I think that that connection is so important and just. Accepting and appreciating where you are.

Michele Folan:

Yeah. You know, I need to ask you this. Was there a chapter or a section in the book that was particularly hard for you to write or was, or maybe healing?

Jen Butler:

Well, most of the book was. Okay. Because it was a lot of, it was revisiting childhood trauma and really aspects of my childhood that I couldn't even name as trauma until I wrote the book and thought that was traumatic and it's okay. So yeah, there were many moments of the book that I that I wrote that were very hard to write. And I initially glossed over some things. And I worked with two editors during my writing process. And I am forever grateful to them because they both said to me at different stages of the process, okay, this scene, you really need to go there. You can't just gloss over this because it's not gonna, no one's gonna connect with it. They're gonna, your readers are gonna be able to tell that you're just glossing over it. You really need to go there. And I would say the things that were hardest for me to write, oh gosh, I mean, a lot of my drinking stuff was very hard for me to write. There was one hangover that I had, it was really the first time where I was, I was sick. And it was the first time my kids saw me that ill from drinking the night before. And I had to cover up for it. My husband had to cover for me. It was just an awful experience. And writing about that and writing the, I'm like closing my eyes as I'm telling you this because it is, it's, it's, it was really hard to do. And it's even hard for me to say it now, but writing the dialogue between me and my kids that morning when I woke up and they were like fresh face and being so cute, and and I'm there in bed, like reeking of alcohol and trying to pretend that I didn't feel horrible. And scenes like that were very, very challenging for me to write. And and some other stuff too, that was very challenging. Some stuff in my sex life that happened that was very hard that we don't have to get into here. But I'll tell you, writing through all of that was the most healing thing I have ever done. And I have been in therapy. I'm in therapy now. I have an amazing therapist. Um, I've done some inner child work with a coach, which I actually talk about in the book. And all of that has been healing as well. But the most healing thing I've ever done has been writing this book and going back to those scenes, putting myself back into my childhood self, into my adolescent self, my early motherhood self, writing my way through it, and then getting to the point in the book where I have processed all of that and I embrace who I am now. The most healing thing I've ever done, for sure.

Michele Folan:

I want to destigmatize the therapy thing. You brought up let's do it. Yeah, you you brought up having a therapist, and I think this is a great segue. You know, I don't know why people find it so hard to admit or to even seek you know, therapy.

Jen Butler:

Thoughts on that? It's it's really too bad. Well, my thoughts are that the world would be a better place if everyone was in therapy. And finding my therapist, I started working with my therapist. It's been almost a year. I went to her last October, and it was right as so I finished my manuscript last December. So I started seeing a therapist for the last two months that I was writing my manuscript. And this book would not be what it is if I had not started therapy and really given myself this that safe space to access parts of myself that I then was able to put into the book. I adore my therapist. She is amazing. If she were, if she were here in this interview, she would say, like, Jen, you're the one doing all the work. You're the one doing all the work. But really, she creates for me a safe space where I can just have time to process things without judgment, without guilt. I can just show up exactly as I am and work through things in a way that you just can't when you're on your own and distracted by what's going on in your everyday life. Yeah. And she also is very gifted in that she's able to draw parallels. So I'll come into her sometimes with just, you know, four different anecdotes. I'll be like, here's what happened this week, and I'll tell her all this stuff. And then she is able to like draw out these parallels between these different stories and offer me that that just like missing piece where I realize, like, oh, that's why these different things that happened have been weighing on me. You know, things from motherhood and partnership and professional work, it they all tie together. And that's one beautiful thing about therapy. When you find a good therapist and you have to find a good one, and that can take a lot of work. Because I've had some, I've had some stinkers as well. Some therapists I should have broken up with way sooner than I did. Um, but when you find the right person and it's the right fit, it is just the most beautiful, healing, empowering experience.

Michele Folan:

This morning I was reading an article about meno divorce. Ooh. And I was reading it to my husband. He's looking at me like, are you trying to tell me something? I'm like, no, honey, you're stuck with me. But I often think that women get to this place in life where maybe they haven't rediscovered themselves yet, or maybe they have. Maybe they are starting to re rediscover themselves, whether it's, you know, the kids have left the nest, whatever, and they're starting to think, uh, I this isn't really what I want for the next 20 years. And maybe if if we were a little more inclined to seek therapy, help, whatever, maybe fewer of us would get into this conundrum of I'm married to this person, I this is not, you know, what I signed up for.

Jen Butler:

Yep.

Michele Folan:

And, you know, I just thought that was so interesting that this this article about meno divorce really shows that women in that that age group, so kind of my age group, are the ones that are seeking divorce. And I, you know, it's just part of this whole rediscovery thing is that women are finally maybe figuring things out for themselves that they've kept stifled all those years.

Jen Butler:

Yes. I completely agree with that. And I think it really there are periods of transition in our lives as women where all of this stuff just kind of comes to a head, right? Like for me, it's the transition from early motherhood to what I call mid-motherhood. So for me, that was my son, my younger child, my son, starting kindergarten. So both kids got into school, were in full-time school. And therefore I was out of the nursery school slog and all that, both kids in school full-time. That was, and that was when I started stopping drinking because I got to this point and I thought, okay, I now have all this time back. What am I doing with my life? Like, let me look at things and and okay, well, alcohol's got to get figured out. So I think it's true. There are just these phases in our lives, whether it's early motherhood to mid-motherhood, mid-motherhood to empty nest, you know, perimenopause to menopause, um, where we have it's we have kind of like a reckoning. You know, I call it like self-spelunking, you know, because that's that's how it felt for me. Like I just was sort of like self-spelunking, like going inside, getting in there, going deep into my guts and thinking about how I want to show up, and then coming to terms with the fact that I was not showing up the way I want to show up. And that can be very scary. And then doing that individually, but also in a partnership, I mean, it's very, very complex. And I totally agree that therapy, whether it's individual therapy or couples counseling, is a great step to take, you know, proactively instead of reactively. But if you end up doing it reactively, that's also okay because at least you're in there.

Michele Folan:

Yeah. So you kind of went at this your way. You quit drinking and then the ball started rolling in your self-discovery. Yes. How do you suggest women who are they're stuck? Whether they're 45 or they're 65, they feel stuck. How do they start? Where's the what's the first step?

Jen Butler:

Uh, I would say I love this question so much. And it's, I wish it was a, you know, I want everyone who feels stuck to hear this. So I think you need to try your best, because this is hard, to kind of zoom out of your life and look down onto your life and think, what is happening here that's not serving me? Is there something, is there some area of this? In in my coaching practice, I do an exercise called the life circle, where it's almost like a like a trivial pursuit pie, you know, and you and you break a circle up into different pie pieces of your life. So professional, you know, motherhood, partnership, individual goals, hobbies, community, whatever kind of makes up your life circle as you see it. And then you look at your circle and you think, how fulfilling are each of these pieces of the pie? And for me, that was really helpful in my own journey. And I think it's just really helpful to kind of do that. Like take a survey and you'll see it. If you take that time to zoom out, look at your life, you will see the if you let yourself, you will see the area where something's not going on. You know, maybe your partnership is great, maybe your relationship with your kids is great and you're feeling really good about who you are as a parent, but maybe your professional life is not serving you and you need to make a job change, or you need to go back to work, or you need to retire, or whatever it may be. And once you identify that area that is keeping you stuck and holding you back, then you have to be brave enough to do the work to unstick yourself.

Michele Folan:

Yeah, because this is my mantra, and this was one of my five pillars. Staying stuck because you fear change is the scariest proposition of all.

Jen Butler:

Yes. Yes. And it's also a choice, right? Staying stuck is a choice. It is not happening by default, it is not happening to you. You are choosing to stay stuck. And people are gonna hear that and be like, not they're gonna want to tell me to, you know, be quiet. Um because that can be really hard to hear.

unknown:

Yeah.

Jen Butler:

But it's true. That was a choice. I I that is a choice. I I chose to continue drinking. It didn't just happen to me. Nobody took a bottle of wine and poured it down my throat. I chose to drink, I chose to not change my relationship with alcohol until I zoomed out, looked at myself, and thought, my relationship with alcohol is really holding me back. And it's something that I've got to address. And then I made the choice to address it. But in the meantime, it's not like it was happening by default. I was choosing to not create change.

Michele Folan:

You know, I know we talk about alcohol a lot on the podcast, and I don't make apologies for that. And the reason we talk about alcohol a lot is because I've had my own epiphany around my relationship with alcohol. But also because in my coaching, I see where alcohol really pulls women down. And I figure if the women that I coach have issues, then I know my listeners are also struggling with that tug of war around that nightly glass or two of wine or whatever you choose as your poison. And I love when people like Jen Butler are brave and they can come forward and say, Hey, this was bad. This was bad for my life, but I made this choice. I chose me. Yes. I chose me over alcohol. And for anyone that has tried to quit, you know full well that it is not, it's not easy. And so kudos, Jen, for just not just sharing your story about alcohol, but just your your story in general, because I think of all the women out there that are listening right now who are nodding their heads, going, yeah, yeah, I get it, I get it. And I want to talk about your book, Mom Rediscovered. And I want people to get the book, but think of the women in your life who would benefit from hearing Jen's story. And and even if you may not, it may not resonate a hundred percent with everyone, every aspect of it, it's really the theme here is stepping out and not being afraid of basically self-care. Yeah.

Jen Butler:

Yeah. I love what you just said about choosing you, you know, making that active choice to choose yourself. And you have to, you have to practice doing that. Practice is one of my favorite words, and you have to do it again and again and again. It's not just like you're gonna do you're one and done, right? It's practicing choosing yourself every day, multiple times of a day in multiple ways. And it's not selfish, it is not selfish. It's vital. It really is. And when and when I start, whenever I still get like little pangs of guilt. And I always try to think about my daughter and my son too, but especially my daughter, and to think about, you know, do I want her at age almost 45 not choosing herself? Heck no! I want her choosing herself. I want her choosing herself now and always. I want her putting herself first. I want her preserving herself so she can show up for other people and learning to take care of herself and trusting that by prioritizing herself, she will be able to better show up for other people in her life.

Michele Folan:

And it's such an important point because I think so often women think of, you know, it's selfish. I, you know, putting myself first, that just sounds so selfish. But at the end of the day, we're only going to be better for other people. And you know what? I I think that that's a great thing.

Jen Butler:

Yep. Choosing yourself and and choosing to take up space. And that was one thing I realized when I when I stopped drinking, but also when I quit diet culture. So really, you know, that that piece also is so important. I know we talk about the drinking a lot, but you know, the subtitle of my book is My Midlife Breakup with Drinking and Diet Culture, because they both were such important breakups in my life. And they both, both of those things made me feel so small and made me want to just shut down and be quiet and go in my little box and stay in my little box. And now that I have broken out of that box, I feel so much more myself. And I'm just so much more content. I really, you know, and just at peace with myself. That you use the phrase tug of war. And that is so, that's such a perfect phrase for that cognitive dissonance that happens, not just with alcohol, but also with food and and all the rest of it, right? This feeling of like, oh, I shouldn't do that, and but I'm going to, and the more we can free ourselves from that cognitive dissonance and just show up as ourselves and and embrace who we are, ugh, it's just so much more, you know, peaceful. Life is just so much more peaceful and happier. Absolutely.

Michele Folan:

All right. Book launch official date is October 21st. All right. So this podcast will air right around that time. And we're I know I'm too. We're gonna do a really fun bookstore event together in Cincinnati where I live this November. Can't wait. And what are you most looking forward to about connecting live with readers?

Jen Butler:

Oh my gosh. Well, first of all, I just can't wait to meet you, Michelle, and give you such a big hug. I think it is really magical when women come together and just show up honest, open, authentic as we are. That's one reason why I love teaching fitness and why I am so excited to go on my book tour. Because I cannot wait to just be there like, hey, I wrote this book. You know, there's all these scenes where I'm just like such a hot mess, but here I am holding my book in my hands. Like, what do you, what do you want to do? Like, what are you up to? What's your journey? And also just to hear, I mean, I've already gotten such amazing feedback from my advanced readers about aspects of the book that that really um that they really connected with. And I'm just, I can't wait to hear those stories in person, to hear from people, you know, I I thought it was just me, but it isn't. Now I realize it's not, or, you know, you went through this. It reminded me of when I went through this in my life. And I I just I can't wait. And I can't, I learned so much from my coaching clients, my fitness clients, and now I just can't wait for everything that I'm going to learn from my readers.

Michele Folan:

Yeah. This is gonna be a lot of fun. Where can listeners pre-order the book, Mom Rediscovered, and then find you your Substack and follow you online?

Jen Butler:

Yes. Okay, so here's all the info. You can pre-order my book, Mom Rediscovered, at Amazon, also at Barnes and Noble, which is BN.com, and also at bookshop.org. Another great thing to do is to go to your local bookstore and pre-order it through them. They will be able to order it for you, and then that helps get the book on their radar, which is also really helpful for me. So any of those ways, whatever you want to do, is great. And I am very appreciative of all of that. You can also find me on Instagram and TikTok. My handle is at Jen Butler Rights. And so you can find me there. I'm on those platforms all the time. My book website is momrediscovered.com. So that has all the information about my book and where to order it. It also has a free book club kit that I completely nerded out designing and creating. I love that project so much. I love a worksheet. So this is like a whole thing of worksheets. So that is available as a free download on my website. And if you want me to be a guest at your book club, I would love to do that. So there's also a link on my website that connects you to a request form if you would like me to be at your book club. Oh, my dogs are chirping up again. Isn't that great?

Michele Folan:

Oh, I know.

Jen Butler:

I was like, okay, they're like, okay, so much dogs for coming on at the end here.

Michele Folan:

There's like mom, that's enough.

Jen Butler:

Um, and then my Substack is best mom never. And that link is um substack.com slash Jen Butler or something like that. But just search for best mom never on Substack and you can join that community there.

Michele Folan:

Perfect, Jen. This is terrific. I look forward to seeing you in November. Thanks for being here today.

Jen Butler:

Thank you so much for having me back, Michele, and thanks for everything.

Michele Folan:

Thank you for listening. Please rate and review the podcast where you listen. And if you'd like to join the Asking for a Friend community, click on the link in the show notes to sign up for my weekly newsletter where I share midlife wellness and fitness tips, insights, my favorite finds, and recipes.