Health, Fitness & Personal Growth Tips for Women in Midlife: Asking for a Friend

Ep.175 The Science of Midlife Desire: Oxytocin, Hormones, and Erotic Repair

• Michele Henning Folan • Episode 175

Share episode

Reigniting Desire in Midlife with Dr. Diane Mueller: Stress, Hormones & Real-World Intimacy Fixes

Desire doesn’t vanish in midlife—it evolves. In this episode of Asking for a Friend, certified sexologist Dr. Diane Mueller joins host Michele Folan to unpack what really happens to libido, intimacy, and connection as hormones shift, stress piles up, and long-term relationships get comfortable.

We explore the science of midlife desire, from how oxytocin calms cortisol and improves sleep to how vibration therapy and pelvic floor health can ease pain and increase pleasure. You’ll learn the difference between “wanting to want” and true arousal, how testosterone fits into the libido puzzle, and why body image and tissue health deserve as much attention as hormones.

Dr. Mueller introduces her concept of “erotic repair”—a framework that moves intimacy beyond penetration and toward curiosity, communication, and play. Together, we tackle mismatched desire, dopamine boredom, and the single most important habit separating happy couples from disconnected ones: talking specifically about what feels good.

Expect evidence-based tools and real-world scripts you can try tonight—like the Yes/No/Maybe exercise that makes awkward conversations easier. Whether you’re navigating menopause, rebuilding intimacy after stress, or simply craving more connection, this episode delivers honest, science-backed guidance with zero fluff.

 Dr. Dian Mueller's book: https://WantToWantIt.com

Free Libido Quiz to get to the root causes of low libido: https://LibidoQuiz.com

Free - Yes, No, Maybe Checklist to bring in novelty: https://MySexDoc.com

Recommended Lubes and products: https://MyLibidoDoc.com/Products 

IG: https://instagram.com/myromancedoc

_________________________________________
💌 Have questions about 1:1 health and nutrition coaching or Faster Way? Reach me anytime at mfolanfasterway@gmail.com

✨ For more tips, science-backed strategies, and midlife health inspiration, sign up for my weekly newsletter:
👉 https://michelefolanfasterway.myflodesk.com/i6i44jw4fq

🎤 In addition to coaching, I speak to women’s groups, moderate health panel discussions, and bring experts together for real, evidence-based conversations about midlife health. If you’d like me at your next event, let’s connect!

OsteoCollective osteoporosis resources and community link: https://app.osteocollective.com/invitation?code=BE98G9

Transcripts are created with AI and may not be perfectly accurate.

Disclaimer: This podcast is for general informational purposes only and does not constitute the practice of medicine, nursing, or other professional healthcare services. It is not a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. Always seek the advice of your qualified healthcare provider with any questions regarding a medical condition.

MicheleFolan:

Are you tired of quick fixes that never last? I've got something new for you. It's called the 21-day metabolism reset, and it's designed specifically for women in midlife who are ready to finally feel leaner, stronger, and more energized without the gimmicks. In just three weeks, you'll learn how to fuel your body with the right foods, balance your hormones, and train smarter, not harder, so you can see results that actually last. And here's the best part it's only $99 to join. You'll get my coaching, accountability, and proven plan that works with your life. So if you've been waiting for the right time, this is it. Click the link in the show notes. And if you prefer one-on-one coaching, I have options for you too. Health, wellness, fitness, and everything in between. We're removing the taboo from what really matters in midlife. I'm your host, Michele Folan, and this is Asking for a Friend. Today's episode is about a part of midlife that may be a little uncomfortable, but it impacts our health, our relationships, and our sense of self more than we realize. It's sexual wellness. My guest, Dr. Diane Mueller, is a board-certified sexologist, best-selling author, and the founder of MyLibido Doc. She holds dual doctorates, hosts the libido lounge podcast, and has helped thousands of people rekindle intimacy, navigate mismatched desire, and reclaim pleasure during the sometimes tricky midlife years. Whether you've been feeling a shift in your own libido, navigating a relationship with mismatched desire, or just curious about how intimacy changes with age, this conversation is about breaking down shame, addressing the physical and emotional realities, and giving you tools to bring passion and connection back into your life. Dr. Diane Mueller, welcome to Asking for a Friend. Thank you, Michele. I'm happy to be here. So, Diane. Yes. I would love to hear a little bit about your journey. What drew you into becoming a board-certified sexologist and then finding my libido doc?

Dr.DianeMueller:

It's a multi-part answer, honestly, Michele, because there were things that initially drove me to be interested in studying sex. And then there's different things that really drove me to say, well, let me talk about my private life and my private findings publicly. So the initial thing actually that made me very, very interested in this topic was in my early 20s, I had I was struggling with a lot of vulvar pain and went to the doctor, went to many doctors, and nobody could give me any insight as to what was going on. All the lab tests were normal, great, no diseases. But then why am I, you know, lying awake every night in this amazing, horrible pain? So during this time, I had a really wonderful roommate who was very open about talking about her self-pleasure practice, which was like very, very shocking to me because I had never experienced, I'd never taken part in self-pleasure. I was raised where in a kind of a framework where that was like bad and wrong and those kind of things. So it was like very shocking to me to hear her tell me about this. But one day, after hearing me complain about this pain over and over, she hands me a book. And this book was Betty Dodson's Sex for One. And just like the title, you know, a title says it's a book about self-pleasure and a self-pleasure practice. And in her amazing research, one of the things Betty talked about is how many people she was finding had pain of a wide variety of types. And the pain was going away with self-pleasure. It's not the only thing by any means she talks about in that book, but it was like, it was one of those moments, right? Where it's like we read something and we feel like it's written directly for us. Right. So this very, very brave night. I put my um guilt and my shame and my fear aside, you know, just lying awake in this pain. I was like, all right, I'm gonna, I'm gonna give this woman Betty a try, her recommendations. And I masturbate it for the first time. Pain went away. I was like, well, that's interesting. Interesting. Next day, pain's back, lying awake, yada yada. Try it again, pain goes away again. So this happened for, you know, it's like a series of events several nights in a row. And after several times, the pain just went away completely. So this was one of those moments. I feel like as humans, we have these moments in life sometimes that are kind of these aha moments, these pivotal turning point moments where they make us oftentimes disrupt and kind of question some of our beliefs and some of our thinking and some of our, you know, ways that maybe we were raised or beliefs that we held. And so this was that type of moment for me, where it's like I started asking myself different questions, such as, well, if I am made in the image of God, I was raised very religious. So I started asking myself questions like if I'm in the image of God, how could I have a part then that is shameful or bad? So I really from there started asking myself questions, started breaking down the shame around and working through that part of it. And that really led me to the belief that I have now that I talk a lot about in my book, which is that pleasure is not just about desire, but it's something that we require. So that was kind of the initial thing. I didn't take that into business right away. I the business was almost 20 years later when I opened my um sex practice from that moment. But that was the first initial event that made me think, huh, what is happening here? I want to study sex more.

MicheleFolan:

Okay. I gotta back up. All right. First of all, what is it about our religious upbringing that brings on this shame about not just sex, but the self-pleasuring part. Were you Catholic? Were you raised Catholic? I was okay, so was I. Okay. So I know there we heard a lot about that in our, you know, when we were younger and always thought that was so weird. But when you first said you had vulvar pain, the first thing I thought of was that, oh, you had lichen sclerosis or something else. I had no clue that you could have vulgar pain that could be relieved from self-pleasure. Yeah. Is that more common now?

Dr.DianeMueller:

Like people, more people know that. I don't think a lot of people know this, but this there's studies now that are coming out on it. It's like, for example, one of the huge reasons why I feel like every women woman needs to own a vibrator is beyond even pleasure and understanding her own body. But now we're seeing studies that certain vibrators that are used three times a week for 12 weeks have a five times reduction in pelvic pain. So some of some of these vibrator companies that I love and that I support, one of the things I love about some of the companies I partner with is because they are actually doing studies, not only on pleasure, not only on passion, not only on relationships and orgasms and all the amazing things that can come from it, but actually really looking at, hey, how does this activity actually change pain? How does it improve pain? How does it lessen pain? So really the thing of it back then, I think was more just like uh more anecdotal. But now we're actually seeing, you know, 20, 30 years later, now we're seeing more and more research that's saying, like, yeah, this is what's happening. And you know, I think there's different reasons for it. Like anytime we are applying vibration, simulation to these areas, we're actually changing a few different things. We're allowing the signal to the brain, to the genitals from a nervous system standpoint to actually be re like reconnected. So sometimes there can be numbness, right? Some there, sometimes there can be pain due to lack of the brain actually being able to truly sense into this area and communicate correctly. Sometimes it's due to pelvic floor muscles that are holding on too tight. Um, sometimes it's due to lack of circulation and the stimulation can actually help to work in all of these areas to release muscular tension, to bring more nervous system connection, to bring more blood flow to the area. So we're now we're seeing that, oh, science, mechanism is now, we're now understanding this versus before it was purely just anecdotal.

MicheleFolan:

Well, I can see where there like vaginal atrophy, there there would be that would help, right? I mean, I hate to say use it or lose it, but it there's a reality to that. Yeah, there might, yeah, there might be. You know, from your perspective, how intertwined are sexual wellness and overall health in women then?

Dr.DianeMueller:

I really feel like they are highly intertwined. And it's one of the things that I'm doing a lot in my work. Like now that we're there's so much more effort in medicine on like the longevity movement and the anti-aging and biohacking, all these areas. And when we study these areas on things like, you know, biohacking, like, you know, finding ways to basically make your body work optimally for longer, longer periods. You know, we look at anything from how do we eat to how do we sleep to how do we exercise to peptides and injections and all these different types of therapies, right? But one of the things that I feel like is being left out of the conversation so much is the conversation around sex and pleasure. And so, just as an example, we talked so much, right? This is gonna be very um, very cliche, what I'm about to say. So, no surprise to everybody, stress impacts us, right? That's like uh Dr. Diane. So, from that standpoint, though, we know that there's cortisol, right? That stress hormone that floods our body. People talk about it a lot with weight loss. None of this is probably new. But what is interesting is our brain's master regulator hormone for cortisol is oxytocin. Oxytocin is our hormone that allows it, it lowers cortisol, it helps to rebalance cortisol, it actually improves sleep. Oxytocin causes our anxiety to go down, it causes depression to lower, it even helps to build bone. So if you like listen to this, it's like, wow, these are a lot of the symptoms we go through with perimenopause and menopause for women, and even somewhat for andropause, that hormone change for men. And what's interesting about this is with oxytocin, like, I don't know, a decade or two ago, there was all of these conversations around like the 20-second hug. And you give a 20-second hug and you get more oxytocin. And that's true, but I think sometimes people hear that and they're like, well, I can just have a good long hug and you know, don't have to worry about it, right? Here's the thing when our cortisol is raging, when we are in burnout, when we are stressed, when we're at this midlife period of life, especially where people are managing oftentimes not only jobs and children, you know, but the transition of elderly parents and caregiving on both ends, it's just it gets so nutty. Well, oxytocin with a 20-second hug will raise in the blood by about 20 to 50 percent. Sounds pretty cool. Until we realize that with orgasms, the amount of oxytocin in our blood raises 200 to 500%, and more if we even learn how to have multiple orgasms as women. So that's one of the reasons that I really say that pleasure is just not about desire. It's something we require, is because it's a huge, like the hormones that are released are huge for regulation of these things that we're running around spending so much time, money, and effort trying to regulate. And in many ways, the power actually lies within. But we have to learn how to take time in the busyness of all of the overwhelm of all the things I mentioned to actually begin to cultivate our body's ability to produce that.

MicheleFolan:

All right, my husband will never go for the 20-second hug. I can just tell you that right now.

Dr.DianeMueller:

And it's a long time, right? I do this with my girlfriends, and sometimes we'll count. And it's like usually around second seven, that's like usually where that impulse is like, okay, that social impulse to be like, we've been touching long enough, you know, and even with my girlfriend. So we'll actually sometimes count, like, okay, are we at oxytocin levels yet? Yeah, it's like, honey, I have a headache tonight, but I'll give you a 20-second hug.

MicheleFolan:

Right. Um, yeah, that's not gonna work. Exactly. You've said midlife is a pivotal moment for intimacy. Why do you think it's often overlooked or downplayed?

Dr.DianeMueller:

Well, I mean, I think there's a lot of things. I think for a long time, women unfortunately have been gaslit and it's still happening. Like the number of times I talk to somebody who I just can't even believe this is still happening, who will tell their doctor that, oh, they're going through the change, maybe they're having hot flashes, feeling a little spacey, you know, these kind of things. And their doctor will say something like, Well, you just gotta suck it up, everybody goes through it. Like it's it's I have too many stories to even count of this. So I do think there's an element where we still have this old paradigm from the late 90s, early 2000s of hormones are bad, and we're still recovering from that poorly reported research that really scared the heck out of a lot of people, doctors and and patients alike. So I think there's a lot of repatterning there. I do think that there's just a this acceptance of like this is just part of life. And one of the things, and I think as we get into younger generations, I think this will hopefully start to repair. But there's this thing that that I hear a lot of um Gen Xers like me, myself, and a lot of um baby boomers say that we are just getting older, right? And that this is supposed to happen just because we are getting older. So I do think there's an element where we as a society we oftentimes assume normal and common are the same thing. And if something is like common, that aging is not going well and that these transition periods are supposed to be hard. If it's common, we just assume that, okay, well, that means it's normal and that we should just grin and bear it. And yes, things are supposed to, you know, change. Like I'm on hormone replacement therapy. I know what a hot flash is like if I um if I come off of it, all of those things. And that being said, there are things that we can do to make this a beautiful time of life and an empowering time of life and not this hellish, you know, kind of life.

MicheleFolan:

We're gonna take a quick break. And when we come back, I do want to talk a little bit more about some of those physical and emotional shifts in midlife. A diagnosis of osteoporosis can feel scary and overwhelming, but it doesn't have to be the end of your story. The truth is you do have tools and resources to build stronger bones and protect your future. That's why I've partnered with Osteo Collective, an incredible platform dedicated to helping women navigate osteoporosis with confidence. From expert-led workouts and educational resources to a supportive community of women just like you, the Osteo Collective gives you the knowledge and encouragement to take back control of your bone health. And here's the best part: you can try it free for one week. Just click the link in the show notes to start your trial today and discover how to move forward with strength and hope. Okay, we are back. We talk about hormones a lot, and particularly perimenopause, menopause. What are the biggest physiologic changes that we have in midlife that impact intimacy besides hormones?

Dr.DianeMueller:

So there's several. So from a physical aspect, and it's not going to be only physical, but from a physical aspect, hormones, like you said, stress and the stress hormones, circulation, neurological problems, pelvic floor problems, those are the kind of the top five. But then we have to also include things like other inflammatory causes, such as chronic hidden toxins, chronic hidden infections. I actually have a really good resource for people. So if people go to libidoquiz.com, they can take my free quiz and the libidoquiz.com quiz will give you a sense of all these main root causes, which ones are most likely involved for you. And then it will spit out with that. You'll get an email that says, hey, take this list of labs. These are probably labs your doctor might not have considered that are probably important to you. So it kind of teaches you then about labs you might need and how to self-advocate. So that's a really good resource. But I want to make sure I speak beyond the physical. Because yes, we can have all of these things that are happening oftentimes at midlife, all of these imbalances, that sort of thing. But there's another real important thing, a couple more real important things. One is oftentimes when it comes to sex and intimacy, especially when we've been with our partner for many, many years at this point, we're bored. You know, there's a real, real, real thing. And maybe we're not bored intellectually, maybe we're not bored emotionally, we're not bored mentally. But it's very, very common that when it comes to sex, that we've done this exact same thing. It's like imagine your most favorite meal, you know, and you eat the same meal or a slight version of it for 20 years, it can be the best meal. And you can still like, you can still like innately love this meal, but you're probably gonna like want something else, right? You're probably gonna want a different flavor. I love this analogy. I'm sorry. I'm just cracking up. And we're not taught how to talk about this, right? Food provides so many great analogies. I'm clearly a foodie because I use it all the time in my um analogy world. But yeah, it's it's really, it really makes a huge difference. And what happens, right, is like we get stuck in these sexual scripts. And so the sexual scripts, when we've been together for decades, look a lot, and even if it's less than a decade, right? This even happens after a couple of years, where it's like we kiss in this way, we do this position, we maybe do this act, that act, third act, grand finale, and we're done. And you know, usually it's like what differs from intimacy experience to intimacy experience, is like maybe part two and part three have like slightly two or three different positions they rotate through. But you know, that's like the difference between have a ribeye one day and a, you know, and a sirloin the next or whatnot. It's like these differences are still so rhythmatic that we're not creating that novelty, we're not creating that newness. And when that happens, our brain around desire, our brain around um that motivation towards something does not work chemically. Like basically, what strive, what creates that desire and that motivation towards something is a level of newness. And this is not, you know, I work, my specialty is in helping long-term monogamous couples bring passion back. So when I say that, I'm not talking about changing the partner, but I'm talking about how can we change the passion? How can we change the positions? How can we change the things we're doing? How can we change the conversations? How can we bring toys in? How can we bring fantasy in? All these different things so that we're actually starting to create different experiences, which allows the brain to crave things in a different way. It changes the way that our brain actually produces dopamine, which drives motivation back towards the intimate, you know, intimate experience.

MicheleFolan:

All right. There is one thing that I think gets in the way often. Tell me. All right. The the big one is when you have mismatched desire. And I know women get blamed for this most of the time in relationships, but let's call it out for what it is. There are many relationships out there where the woman has the desire, wants that intimacy, wants that connection, and it's the guy that's not being the willing partner. So I want to call that out first because I often think that women get dogged with that label, and it's not always the female. How do we first get everybody on the same page?

Dr.DianeMueller:

Yeah, I have a whole course on this topic because it's probably the most common topic I um I have come across to me with uh long-term monogamous couples. And you're right, like women also oftentimes gets the blame. It really can go either way. And one of the first things that I have to say about this is we have to begin to talk about sex. And the second thing I have to say about this is we have to change what we mean when we say sex. So there's a process that I go that I take people through called erotic repair, where we largely take sex off the table and we just start connecting again erotically. One of the biggest things is that when we are looking at relationships, when we're looking at this kind of conversation, there's many different reasons for low desire. So it could be one of these physical root causes I talked about. So again, to the libido quiz, maybe it's largely as simple as one of those things. Although, like we talked offline, I do tend to find that 99% of the time it's more than one root cause. But that could that could be part of it, right? Getting on testosterone, like we talked about, getting your hormones looked at, working on your circulation. So obviously we want to do those basic foundational things. But when it comes to then more the intimacy, when I say we have to change the definition of sex, what I mean by that is, and and anytime I speak to a live audience, one of the things I often ask is when I say sex, what do you think of? And everybody largely thinks intercourse or penetration. Those are the you know words that come popping through a chat or get yelled at in a room. So one of the things that can help too, because oftentimes if there is a desire discrepancy, there can be these physical reasons, but there can also be like for somebody, maybe if it's a man, maybe he's stressed out, maybe his he's experiencing some level of erectile dysfunction, maybe he's embarrassed, he's ashamed, he feels like he can't provide pleasure to his partner. And there's all these like self-fulfilling prophecies going on for him. You know, for a woman, maybe she's overwhelmed, maybe she has vaginal dryness, maybe she's bored, maybe she's not having orgasms. Like there's so many different things for her. So if we can start to broaden what sex is beyond just penetration for a time being, and actually broaden it to be like anything intimate touch. And we can start to take the pressure off. And oftentimes when we're thinking desire mismatch, many times it's like, well, I'm just not in the mood for intercourse for any of these reasons. But if we can start to say, okay, that's not the only way we're defining it, yes, we want to get back to that because that has a lot of beauty. But if we start to redefine it and say, like, okay, well, what areas and start to have conversations, say like what areas from a standpoint of touch and sensual intimacy are you actually available for you, for right, like for right now? And we can start to say, okay, well, maybe it's intercourse is hard to be on the table, but you know, maybe co-masturbation or maybe playing with vibrators or may, maybe massages with happy endings, right? There's so many different ways that we could be available for this. And with erotic with erotic repair, we start to take that pressure off and start to just put that intention back on the connection. And then another thing I have to say about this is when we look at couples and surveys on couples of who has said to have the happiest in their relationship with the best um intimacy experience. In these surveys, 92% of people that have that state they have a high, high, high level of happiness in their relationship and in their intimate sexual life. 92% of them talk about it. So we have to begin to have these conversations and we have to begin to have these conversations around, like, you know, what feels good to you right now. We have to understand our bodies change, our needs change. And so for the woman that is disinterested, many times she becomes disinterested for all of the, you know, physical root causes we talked about, but also because it's very frequent that orgasm and her capacity to reach orgasm and the way she reaches orgasm changes throughout life. Yeah. And maybe what she was like really, really like having as like effective early on in the relationship, maybe, you know, who knows? Maybe she faked it, happens a lot. Or maybe, maybe it was working back then and all of a sudden it's just not working anymore. And now she's in bed being like, well, he gets all the pleasure, and I'm not really like getting any pleasure out of this. So why am I, you know, engaged? So there's a whole nother realm of conversation is beginning to repair the capacity for orgasm.

MicheleFolan:

You know, we didn't really talk about this, but women at this stage of life aren't always feeling really confident about their bodies. And yeah, I'm I'm a health coach. I talk to women all the time about their body confidence and what that means to them. And I have to think that when you talk about root causes, this is a big one. How do we, Diane, get women past this? Because uh let's call it out for what it is. The guys aren't, you know, looking like they did when they were 19 either. So exactly right, right? But how do we get women to open up and start to embrace their bodies in a healthier way when it comes to intimacy?

Dr.DianeMueller:

I think there's it kind of goes back to the question around how do we overcome shame. And because there is a lot of self-same that comes with this, right? And we can go down the soapbox of why that is and culture and society and the media around like what the perfect woman that is completely unachievable is supposed to look like. And there's actually studies on this. There's studies that have connected body image with, you know, with sexual desire. There's studies that have connected genital image and how women in particular, but this happens for men too, size, for example, and how genital image can actually be connected with desire. So how we feel about these areas about our body, about our genitals, and if we are experiencing shame will directly impact our experience in the bedroom and desire. And in my book that is coming out, Want to Want It, one of the things that I talk about in here is this concept of loving your body at any size and also wanting it to be healthy. Because I do think we have like gone so far with like, you know, positive body love that we forget that, hey, if something is out of balance, if we're carrying 20 extra pounds, there could be there are signs associated with that and higher risk for things like diabetes, for example. So we want to make sure that we are doing our part to take care of our body. But I think uh the way we've gone wrong, it's like so many times in life we do these like either or types of things around like, you know, either I'm totally healthy, you know, or I have this other, you know, or I and I totally healthy and I love my body, or or or or or. And it's more of an and around like we want to make good choices, we want to run the labs, we want to do the things to say, hey, are there imbalances in my body that could be supported to help make me less inflamed and healthier? And at the same time, really, really work with that body love at any size. And one of the best ways I've seen to work with any like self-shaming around this or just like not feeling in one's body really is any type of slow embodiment practice. So, like for me, I have found the best way to through this is through dance. And I've been many sizes in my life. I was 50 pounds heavier at one point, I was about 40, oh not 40 pounds, I was about 20 pounds lighter than I am at one point. So I've like seen my body in all these different shapes and sizes and the um the set like embodied dance of like slow sensual music. And for me, the way that I have found to just find body love is with myself in a pair of lingerie, with like the music on and soft lighting, and just allow my body to feel, allow like the rolls to be where they are, my hands to run themselves over my body, and to actually practice where the mind checks out. So if you're finding yourself like, oh, this is a position or this is a movement or this is a movement of your hand over your body, and all of a sudden your brain is like doing the list, you know, the grocery list, the to-do list, whatever, that's a real big like sign that that's an area where you're not embodied, where it does not feel safe, where you Feel shame, you feel something else. And then we want to come back to that area with kindness and just see how close we can be to that area, maybe by touching it. Maybe we're not like, let's say we're like checking out because we think our butt's too big, our hips are too big. So, how close can we actually move our hand to that area while staying in presence with it while not being checked out? So if I move my hand and it's like, oh, I move it over my hips and like all of a sudden my body and my brain is checked out, moving it back a couple inches and being like, okay, can I breathe and stay present and show love to my body in this part? And the more we can stay in our body, the more we can start to say, okay, now I'm present with the fullness of me versus shaming. That checking out is usually a sign of self-shame. But it's really those embodiment practice. It doesn't have to be through dance. That's just been my avenue. It can be through, you know, Pilates, it can be through yoga, but something that is slow enough that is going to allow you to like check into your body and see: am I judging? Am I tuning out? Am I checking out or am I fully present? Here's one other thing.

MicheleFolan:

And I I've mentioned this on the podcast before. So my listeners are probably like, yeah, yeah, yeah. But foreplay begins in the morning, begins at breakfast. It begins over a cup of coffee. You know, I think we have to get out of our minds that emotional intimacy starts in the bedroom where it doesn't. I I feel like, at least in in my house, that it's really how we carry ourselves the whole day. And, you know, if you had a terse word in the morning with each other, and then you're expecting intimacy in the evening. Well, you may not, because if you're not communicating and clearing those things up, it's gonna really hamper your ability to get there in the mood.

Dr.DianeMueller:

Yeah. I mean, I would even add on to that and say, like, one of the things I tell couples in my program is foreplay largely starts the minute the grand act finishes. It's like basically everything in between, right? Yeah. And like I just say that like from a standpoint of like, I don't want people to hear this and be like, well, I don't have time for that. Like, that's not what I'm trying to create here. But what I am trying to create is like, if we go back to like that new relationship energy and what's happening is like most people are like naturally in more of like a flirtatious, you know, mode with each other. There is this natural excitement for the next time you see each other. And that really goes away largely when that dopamine decreases, when we move in together, when we share keys to each other's places, when we combine our lives in these different ways. And everything that happens between our, you know, our more sensual intimate moments really is an opportunity for foreplay because what we're doing is we're actually finding ways to begin to bring that flirt and that desire back. And so I do this a lot. Like another gift I'll give your audience is my yes, no, maybe checklist, which they can find at mysdoc.com. And on this yes, no maybe checklist, I give people ideas on how to bring novelty back in. There's over a hundred ideas on, hey, have you tried this thing and have you tried that thing? And what's fun about doing stuff like this is when it comes to this idea around like foreplay and flirting, when you do a checklist like this and you're like, oh yeah, okay, we're both actually interested in trying this thing, it actually gives you material to bring in to that flirt, to that foreplay of like, you know, wow, honey, like I've been thinking about, you know, our this thing that we're gonna do. I'm really excited about here's what's like happening to my body when I'm thinking about it. Right. So it's like it starts to create almost this foundation that we can actually begin to have foreplay in flirting because, you know, I don't know if you run into this with people that you coach, but like one of the things I see when I talk to people about this, whether we're saying, okay, in the morning or after the you know, grand event, is it's very common for people to be like, well, I don't know how to flirt anymore. I don't know how to do foreplay like that anymore. So this is one of the ways I have like given like a concrete tool to people to actually say, okay, here's a resource you can use. And once people get, you know, back into the groove, oftentimes, you know, they don't need these um, you know, these um crutches anymore. But initially it can be a very help, helpful starting point to get you kind of on the same team with like talking about this and beginning to flirt again.

MicheleFolan:

You know, I mentioned to you before we started recording that I know couples, I speak to women all the time, where they're they're both kind of shut down. So he falls asleep on the couch every night after a couple drinks, she goes into the room, her bedroom, she watches Netflix, falls asleep, you know, they're not they're not connecting. I guess that works for some couples. Now, I would not enjoy that, but if one of them decides, hey, this is this is kind of weird. Like, why are why why is this our life now? Can we get them back into what you call hot monogamy?

Dr.DianeMueller:

We can. I mean, the the thing that is truly essential though is both people in the relationship need to be willing to take a step towards that. So it's just like, you know, it's like couples therapy, right? If one person is willing to go and the other person's like checked out and showing up late and not really participating, it's probably not going to work. So the first step with actually returning to a hot intimate life or getting a hot intimate life to begin with and practicing hot monogamy really is both, you know, couples coming to the table and saying, like, hey, I would like this to be different. I would like this to be better. I love you, I care about you, I care about our life enough to invest some time into this. And we don't have to be on the same place with how they're feeling about, you know, their intimate life, but they both need to come to the table and say, hey, I love this person enough and I want there to be passion again and I'm willing to show up for it, just like anything else. So it's not really going to work if you have like that one person you're constantly pulling. You do to have to have both people willing to say, I want to invest in this.

MicheleFolan:

What's one small thing, though, that maybe they could like take on tonight? Like what? So maybe they're not willing to go and in and get help, but what could they do just tonight to begin to shift the energy?

Dr.DianeMueller:

One of my first favorite steps for people, because this is the foundation of how we start talking about it. And like I said, like 92% of people of couples that are having amazing sex are talking about it. So we really need to practice that muscle. And the first step with that is actually beginning to talk about what you love. Like we need to remember that anytime that we have a conversation about sex, that what we see in studies is that the biggest threat uh to the relationship is the threat to each individual. So that means if I'm gonna talk to sex about with my boyfriend, I'm gonna innately subconsciously have a huge driver to protect myself. He's gonna have a huge drive to protect himself. And so that puts everybody on the defensive. And so the way to start building the conversations around them, this and making it safe is to start talking about all the things that you love. And this can be super, it might be awkward the first time you do this, right? And the more specific you can be, the better. And if you're not having sex, maybe you start with like something that is, you know, happening in the sensual world. Maybe it's like the way they hug you in the morning. Maybe it's a sweet little sweet squeeze they give your hand under the dinner table when you're sitting with the kids. Like any just be very, very, very specific. And what you're starting to do is you're starting to build this foundation of like, oh, talking about sex and intimacy is safe. And when I leave talking about sex and intimacy, not only am I not guarding myself, I'm actually feeling awesome because here I'm hearing about this amazing way that I'm providing something to my partner that feels so valuable. So that's one of the first things to practice. Of course, we do want to eventually get to the point where we're talking to our partner and saying, like, hey, that thing that you do, maybe you bite my ear in that way. I used to love it back in 1993, but it's out now, right? We do want to essentially have those kind of conversations, but we need to start with this is the foundation. These are the things that are working really, really well. So we build that safety and we start to um be able to build from there. Well, I can see where they could get very defensive.

MicheleFolan:

Yeah. So if you're like, well, the reason I don't want to have sex with you is because you do this, this, and this, it it then it's not that's not going to be productive. So we gotta it, I get what you're saying. They also say that when you when you do manifesting, that you you you manifest about the things that are going right. Correct. Not I need this because this is bad, right? So and and just like that.

Dr.DianeMueller:

Yeah, no, but I think there's there's a lot of similarities there. There is, yeah. Because the point I was gonna add on to that is like just like with manifesting, it's like such a good point you're bringing up. Because just like that, where it's like, oh, you kind of feel into the abundance, you feel into the peace, you feel into whatever you're trying to manifest, and you feel the feeling of what you're trying to get, not what you don't want. Same thing with this. It's like so often the time when we're focused on these things that are awesome, and our partner hears this, you start to get more of those things. And the things that are like not as awesome, sometimes you don't even have to bring them up. Like sometimes you still do need to, like I said, we do need to talk about those things eventually. But sometimes as we are focused so much on what we love, our partner starts to do more of those things. And there's just like not even thinking anymore about that thing that they were doing that's maybe not as pleasurable because you've now retrained them so much of, hey, this is the vibe, this is the state, this is the feeling. So it's a very, it's a really good analogy.

MicheleFolan:

We talked a little bit about testosterone, and I think we need to address this because I I think there's some oh misconceptions about what testosterone therapy can and can't do. Now, from my own experience, I will say before I had my hysterectomy, and I've I've again I've shared this with my listeners and they're probably like, uh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Uh, but um, I had been on Lupron, which totally took my testosterone and everything else with it down to the basement. And so when they first put me on testosterone therapy, she just said, So, how are you feeling? This was like six weeks after I started. And I said, I feel pretty good. I said, I actually think my husband is cute. I said, That's a good first step, right? She said, Yes, it's a good step that we're we're making progress. But I don't want women to think that going on, you know, testosterone is gonna solve all their problems. Can you talk a little bit about that?

Dr.DianeMueller:

Yeah, I think testosterone is incredibly important. And there's so many people that I know when they get on testosterone, both men and women alike, that all of a sudden they get a boost in a lot of things, their libido, their energy, their brain function. Like, you know, it's pretty cool. The moment I started on testosterone myself, it was like automatically able to do a pull-up at the gym. I was like, wow, this is pretty, really cool. So there's a lot of benefits from it. But it's also not uncommon, right? That oftentimes that people will feel an initial impulse or initial increase in things like libido. And then three or four weeks later, all of a sudden it's like, dang, like that was really good. And now it's gone away. So anytime we're talking about sex drive, libido, anything in the medical, you know, space, we have to remember that when we're truly talking about the root causes of why something is, say, an imbalance in the body and a change in sex drive, a change in libido, I would classify as imbalance in the body, just like any other symptom. And so anytime there's an imbalance in the body and we're saying, why? What are the root causes? We have to understand that there it's really root causes plural and not root cause singular. In fact, in the 15 years I've been practicing medicine, I've never had a single patient with any sort of chronic issue where there's only been one root cause. Never happens. Like, not saying it couldn't, but it never has. So, you know, we can say in like acute medicine, like, oh, there's one root cause. For example, you get strep throat, you know, that's oftentimes a root cause. But then we could even say, oh, well, why did I get strep throat? Maybe my immune system's down, maybe my microbiome's down, maybe I'm not eating healthy, maybe I'm not sleeping enough. So even in that acute realm, we can say, hey, oftentimes there's more than one root cause. So if we're looking at root causes like a piece of a pie, and when we're talking about low libido, and we're saying, okay, well, one piece of that pie of root cause is testosterone. What's really important to understand, and where people kind of get misdirected, is oftentimes when something like testosterone works and then all of a sudden it like stops working, they think, oh, I don't need testosterone. And that's generally not true. Like we do want to take in, you know, this is obviously like talk to your doctor, like you got to get full medical advice here. But think about if testosterone, if there's six pieces of your root cause pie, and there's gonna be different numbers of pie slices for everybody's scenario. But if there's six pieces of pie, each representing one root cause, and testosterone is one of them, if you don't address that piece of the pie, you're not gonna be functioning holistically, wholly. So if you leave it out, it's not gonna, your body's not gonna be working fully. But if you only address that, you're also not gonna be working fully. So if you start taking testosterone and you notice, like, wow, you feel something great and you're getting a change, great. Now you know that is one piece of the pie and it's an important piece. It doesn't mean you should take that piece out. It just means that, hey, if you're like, hey, my libido hasn't turned back on fully, you need to figure out what these other pieces are. And they could be some of these other things that we talked about at my libido quiz at libidoquiz.com. Could be the novelty, could be the change of orgasm, could be the change of feeling, could be like you mentioned earlier, that emotional thing that happened during early in the day and it was never resolved, and it's festering and this happens a lot, and we're just feeling all these micro traumas continually. There are so many different pieces of the pie, but that's how we need to look at it is like many pieces of the libido pie, and testosterone is an important piece, but not the whole story.

MicheleFolan:

Yeah. And I appreciate you really digging into that. That was that was really good. Um, just because I don't want people to think that that's gonna solve all your because there's the physical and then there's the emotional, and then uh it's complicated, it's messy. So yeah, Diane, you should talk about your podcast.

Dr.DianeMueller:

Oh, I'd love to. Yeah, you guys can all find me on any podcast platform. My podcast is called Libido Lounge, and really we explore mental, emotional, physical, inter-relational communication techniques, novelty, boredom, orgasms, and more. And I spend on that show, I interview sex spirit and therapists and all sorts of different experts in the hormone, in the wellness, in the health space, all over the world. That's exciting. That's really good stuff. Yeah, great. And then your book. My book is called Want to Want It. So right now, I'm not sure when this episode is coming out, but right now, as of today, when we're filming this, this is on um pre-release. So you can order it now. It comes, the book comes out officially on November 3rd. And so I'm giving all sorts of bonuses by for the pre-release. I'm getting also giving all sorts of bonuses for people that buy it right around the time of release and leave me a review. So lots of ways to get free access to a lot of my courses and material. I have tons of partners, um, I think close to eight different partners who have given me free content from there that are sexologists as well, that have given me content to also gift people as well. So it's a really great way of getting additional bonuses on how to heal from desire mismatch, on how to help your hormones, and so much more.

MicheleFolan:

You know what else we should do is for the show notes, if so, I'll put all that in the show notes, but I want to make sure too that if there's any sex toys or little aids that would be helpful that you love that are, you know, tried true and tested, that maybe we could put some links to those also in the show notes.

Dr.DianeMueller:

I'll give you my product link page because for anything that I recommend, um, I always like to do two things. One, test it myself. And then two, as much as possible, get discount codes for everybody. So I can give you a page where I have like discount codes and everything. Cause like you have like there's a lot of um, there's a lot of products out there that are like toxic for the vagina or lubes that are like really sticky and gross. So I do like to um test it as well as give um coupon codes. So I can give you the link where people can find great coupon codes and that sort of thing too.

MicheleFolan:

You know, you brought up lube. And I I won't get on my soapbox about women using vaginal estrogen, but you're not even giving yourself a chance if you don't get yourself some vaginal estrogen. It's very, very helpful. And some good lube because uh you gotta have a good environment there. And it's just yeah.

Dr.DianeMueller:

And even testosterone applied to the vulva, a lot of people are not doing vulva vir application of testosterone creams, but even testosterone cream can also really help with lubrication. I also really encourage the, you know, the vaginal estrogen as well. But it's good for women to know that testosterone can be helpful too, and that can be a great place to apply it as well, is on the vulva.

MicheleFolan:

Yep, I've heard that too. Yep. So what is one of your own self-care non-negotiables that keeps you grounded and connected because you're a very busy person?

Dr.DianeMueller:

Um, as far as self-care, a few different things. One, one of the biggest things is I wake up and I don't immediately go on my phone. I wake up and I do meditation, visualization. There's, I don't have like a perfect morning routine. I don't really believe personally that there has to be this perfect morning routine. But what I do believe is that, you know, just like you're talking about manifestation, that my day is created out of the state that I'm in. And the more I can get myself into the um, into the internal state where I'm going to enjoy my days and that I'm creating internally versus letting the world and the outside world dictate how I feel, that is probably one of the most profound self-care things that I have done in my life. Oh, that's perfect.

MicheleFolan:

This is a great way to wrap it up. Dr. Diane Mueller, thank you so much for being here today. Thank you, Michele. Thank you for listening. Please rate and review the podcast where you listen. And if you'd like to join the Asking for a Friend community, click on the link in the show notes to sign up for my weekly newsletter where I share midlife wellness and fitness tips, insights, my favorite finds, and recipes.