Health, Fitness & Personal Growth Tips for Women in Midlife: Asking for a Friend

Ep.174 The Cost of the Nightly Wine Habit: Sobriety, Neuroplasticity & Midlife Freedom

• Michele Henning Folan • Episode 174

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What’s the Real Cost of That Evening Glass of Wine? A Sobriety Journey with Kate Vitela

Kate Vitela, a registered nurse, shares her powerful journey from physical alcohol dependence to over seven years of sobriety. Her story isn’t defined by a dramatic rock-bottom moment but by a gradual awakening to how daily drinking eroded her sleep, career, and relationships. Now, Kate offers a hopeful perspective on recovery through neuroplasticity—the brain’s incredible ability to rewire itself and form new neural pathways. “Our brains can reorganize,” she says. “We can completely transform as human beings.” This challenges the outdated notion that addiction is a lifelong disease requiring constant management.

In this candid conversation, we dive into what that evening glass of wine means for midlife women. For many, it’s more than a drink—it’s a rebellious act of self-care, a boundary between meeting others’ needs and claiming a moment for themselves. But Kate reveals the hidden costs: even one drink disrupts REM sleep, circadian rhythm, and hormones, far beyond just calories. Host, Michele Folan, shares a personal experiment, contrasting a sleep score of 62 after bourbon with 91-94 on alcohol-free nights.

Kate doesn’t judge moderation but offers a bold reframe: “Alcohol is ethanol—a poison. Moderation is just microdosing poison.” She argues that midlife is the perfect time to rethink your relationship with alcohol. With greater motivation and a clearer sense of what doesn’t work, midlife women are uniquely positioned to embrace change.

Whether you’re sober-curious, exploring moderation, or questioning alcohol’s role in your life, this episode invites you to uncover what drinking is truly costing you—and what freedom could look like. Through her work with women, Kate shows that true empowerment comes from self-care practices that nourish without requiring recovery.

Listen now to discover how to reclaim your power, improve your sleep, and embrace a life free from alcohol’s grip.

You can find Kate Vitela at https://www.instagram.com/rewiredsober/

Podcast https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/rewired-sober/id1781739552 or wherever you listen

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💌 Have questions about 1:1 health and nutrition coaching or Faster Way? Reach me anytime at mfolanfasterway@gmail.com

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🎤 In addition to coaching, I speak to women’s groups, moderate health panel discussions, and bring experts together for real, evidence-based conversations about midlife health. If you’d like me at your next event, let’s connect!

OsteoCollective osteoporosis resources and community link: https://app.osteocollective.com/invitation?code=BE98G9

Transcripts are created with AI and may not be perfectly accurate.

Disclaimer: This podcast is for general informational purposes only and does not constitute the practice of medicine, nursing, or other professional healthcare services. It is not a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. Always seek the advice of your qualified healthcare provider with any questions regarding a medical condition.

MicheleFolan:

Are you tired of quick fixes that never last? I've got something new for you. It's called the 21-day metabolism reset, and it's designed specifically for women in midlife who are ready to finally feel leaner, stronger, and more energized without the gimmicks. In just three weeks, you'll learn how to fuel your body with the right foods, balance your hormones, and train smarter, not harder, so you can see results that actually last. And here's the best part it's only $99 to join. You'll get my coaching, accountability, and proven plan that works with your life. So if you've been waiting for the right time, this is it. Click the link in the show notes. And if you prefer one-on-one coaching, I have options for you too. Today's episode took an unexpected turn, and I kind of loved it. My guests challenged me a bit on the idea of moderating alcohol, and honestly, it felt like a mini counseling session right here on the mic. But I don't mind at all. I welcome guests who bring their fire and push me to reflect. Here's where I stand. I understand that for many people, moderation simply isn't workable. But for me, I can have a drink or two on occasion and leave it at that. Case in point, I just got back from a girl's trip. Yes, I had wine, I even had a little bourbon. And let me tell you, my sleep was trashed, I woke up foggy, dragging through the next day with a mild headache. It was such a clear reminder of what alcohol really costs me. Now that I'm home, I'm right back to sipping my mocktails and actually enjoying not drinking. And here's the thing: each trip, each celebration, each of these little experiments brings me one step closer to giving up alcohol altogether. Health, wellness, fitness, and everything in between. We're removing the taboo from what really matters in midlife. I'm your host, Michele Folan, and this is Asking for a Friend. Let's talk about the woman who is tired of being tired. You wake up groggy, dragging yourself through the day because that glass or two of wine most evenings robs your sleep and steals your energy. Or maybe you're tired of hiding your drinking, sneaking pours when no one's watching, or stashing the empties because you're embarrassed or afraid of being found out. Maybe there's that nagging shame from being that person at the party one too many times. In midlife, alcohol doesn't just take the edge off anymore. It can take your sleep, your confidence, and your clarity. You know it's a problem, you fear that rock bottom moment, and you know deep down you're ready for change. My guest today, Kate Vitela, knows the story all too well. A registered nurse for over 20 years, Kate got sober in 2018 and has since dedicated her life to helping others rewire their brains, reclaim their power, and find freedom and sobriety. She's the host of the Rewired Sober Podcast, a board-certified psychiatric mental health nurse and recovery coach for women who are ready to take their life back without hitting rock bottom. Kate Vitela, welcome to Asking for a Friend.

KateVitela:

Oh, thank you so much. I'm excited to be here.

MicheleFolan:

Well, I was on Kate's podcast a while back. And as we spoke, I thought, yeah, you know what? She brings such a different perspective to this topic than what we've done in the past. And I think this is really good timing. Honestly, you know, we're rounding up summer here. We're going into the fall and the holidays. And I think that's kind of a time when people start to really look at some of their behaviors, particularly drinking, and maybe start reassessing a little bit. Kate, for those who are new to you, can you share a little bit about your story and what inspired you to create Rewired Sober?

KateVitela:

Yeah, thank you for the intro. I'm Kate Vitela. I have been a registered nurse since 2001. And I, like you said, I got sober in 2018. And when I was six months sober, I pivoted my nursing career to work in mental health and addiction, psychiatric nursing, a field of study I never thought I was gonna go into. And uh I've been in that field for the last seven years because I'm seven and a half years sober at this at the time of this recording. So, you know, over time, research, personal experience, talking with hundreds of women, you repeat yourself in certain areas. You find certain things that are really important to discuss and things that really light you up in terms of subjects. And I got so excited about the concept of neuroplasticity and the hope it brings to recovery. And it just felt like the next step, you know, and and it was kind of bigger than me in so many ways. I it just one thing led to the other, led to the other, and I and I ended up here and I I started coaching about, I think it was two years ago. And you know, I just recently started a podcast, and it just feels like things are falling into place. Again, it feels bigger than me, but I know I'm right where I'm meant to be.

MicheleFolan:

Oh, and doesn't that feel good? Yeah, you know, and to have these pivots in midlife and go at it without a lot of fear, but you know what? I shouldn't assume that. Were you a little scared about you know taking that chance and shifting your nursing career altogether?

KateVitela:

Absolutely, I was. And and I want to backtrack a little bit because I used the word pivot, and that's a very nice self-compassionate term for what actually happened. Well, what was that moment back in 2018? Yeah, in 2018, that was sort of the culmination of all of the issues from my over decade-long career of drinking. Maybe I think I drank every day, probably for 10, 15 years. So I was 38 years old by that time. I had been a registered nurse for 17 years, and my drinking had gotten so bad that it was interfering with my work, my family life, my marriage. It was really, really bad. And it and I was physically, physiologically addicted to it. I could not see my way out from a perspective of, you know, I didn't know anybody in recovery. I didn't even know what that word meant. I had only seen, you know, AA meetings in the movies, and I had been a nurse for a really long time, having never talked about addiction. Never talked about it. I worked in cardiology, I worked in surgeries, I worked in pharmaceuticals, and it just wasn't, it wasn't on my my brain ever. And so by 2018, as my story goes, I was facing that crucial part where I knew I had to quit drinking. You know, everyone around me was saying it. You know, it was coming up with all, you know, all the consequences. It was, it was hitting me smack in the face. I knew there was no other way out. But I also didn't know how to live substance free, like how to just raw dog it, as you'll say. Like I did not know how to go through life without a crotch, without something. So instead of just going, you know, straight into sobriety, I started smoking marijuana, like massive quantities of it. You know, at 38 years old, it's like the first time I've ever tried it. You can tell I don't even know what I'm talking about because I say the word marijuana instead of like a cool term, you know, like a cool word for pot. I'm like, it's THC. But you know, because that was my way of saying, okay, I'm gonna switch my crutch from alcohol to marijuana, right? I could not imagine going stone cold sober. And as you know, nurses, first responders, we are not allowed to imbibe in THC because it's not federally legal, which makes me laugh because we are certainly allowed to imbibe in alcohol. Of course. But I basically got in trouble, and my story is kind of long and twisted and funky at this point. But I got caught and I tried to throw a drug screen. I tried to use fake urine to throw a drug screen because I was afraid I was gonna test positive for THC, which is so silly now that I look back on it. But it it put me into a monitoring program for nurses with substance use issues.

MicheleFolan:

Okay.

KateVitela:

And that kind of catapulted me into recovery. And then, you know, I had to take a break from nursing. And when I came back into bedside nursing, the field that made the most sense was psych because of what I had been through personally. I had this like newfound, you know, compassion and also curiosity. You know, early sobriety piqued so much curiosity for me about this whole other world of mental health.

MicheleFolan:

You know, first of all, thank you for bravely sharing your story because that's gotta be hard to admit, like, hey, I was out of control. Yeah, this was this was where I was at the time. And then for sticking with it, like you didn't you didn't give up on on your career. You wanted to continue on. And I think that says a lot about you and your tenacity, that your tenacity is what got you through this, that you didn't want to give up. You didn't want to give up on yourself.

KateVitela:

Yeah. Thank you for that. There were times I did, you know, there were times I wanted to throw in the towel, but it was it was a one day at a time thing for a while, you know, uh putting one foot in front of the other. I had good support around me. I am a white, straight cis woman with financial means. You know, let's face it, I had privilege. I had parents that helped subsidize my rent while I was getting my shit together. You know, there's things that I have to attribute. I had a support group. And yes, I had some tenacity and and some resilience, but I was not alone. And so I try to make that really clear to people who feel like they're in hopeless, helpless situations. I mean, yes, I was able to rise above all of it, but um, it took time and support.

MicheleFolan:

Was there at some point in your your work history where you were a model as well?

KateVitela:

Actually, fashion modeling?

MicheleFolan:

Yeah.

KateVitela:

Did you were you doing some modeling at some point too? Yeah, and that is actually part of my recovery story. When I got sober, I think I was like two or three years sober, I got connected with the editor of the sober curator magazine. Her name's Elise Bryson. She lives in the Seattle area near me. And I wanted to contribute, but I didn't know, you know, what I what area I would specialize in. Like I never found myself particularly artsy. And I, you know, I wasn't a writer, I wasn't a photographer. But one area I I knew a lot about and I loved was fashion. So I started blogging a fashion column for the sober curator called Walk Your Talk and contributing just random images of me, clothes that I sourced from the goodwill or the real, real, or various places. And I remembered that time, like kind of cataloging my early recovery alongside of what I was wearing. And it was the premise was you know, you're changing on the outside, you're changing on the inside. And through that connection, I got, uh, let's see, gosh, following the breadcrumbs, I met Alexandra Nyman, who is the creative director of the Break Free Foundation. She runs a fashion show in New York, dedicated to mental health and addiction. I cast for that and end up walking in New York Fashion Week for her, for that cause, which then kind of prompted me to do local castings in the Seattle and Portland area. Then I started doing some local runway and modeling, and uh it just kind of became its its whole own thing. And I and I chalked that up to a year or two of adventures in early sobriety. I had so much fun doing it. I don't do it anymore simply because it's not the end goal for me. It was just a fun thing. It, you know, it's a lot of work and a lot of time and energy that I don't have at this point in my life as a 46-year-old woman.

MicheleFolan:

Well, yeah. And you've got a lot of irons in the fire right now. Yes. And I think, as you say, it it there's a bigger plan here for you, for sure. You named your podcast Rewired Sober. And I think that plays on your approach to this. Can you explain why you you called it Rewired Sober?

KateVitela:

Yeah. It actually started out being called You've Been Selected. And so there's several episodes recorded where you'll hear me say that if you ever listen to it. And there's there's a lot of marketing around you've been selected. And that name came from the nurse monitoring program I was in. Every day I was, quote, selected to do a random UA, those red letters would pop up on the screen. And as time went on, I realized what I really love, appreciate, admire. I can't even like what really lights me up about recovery is the neuroplasticity component and the hope around the our brain's ability to reorganize itself, you know, around the concept that we can completely heal. Because that that was foreign to me in early recovery. I was fed the messaging that you will be one drink away from being a raging alcoholic the rest of your life. You'll sit in church basements, you'll always have a quote disease, you'll always be broken. And although that had its place in my recovery in terms of surrendering in the beginning, it left me at about two and a half years sober, feeling kind of hopeless. Like, wow, this is forever. Uh P.S. This sucks. You know, you want to know the truth? I don't want to call myself an alcoholic forever. I don't want to sit in church basements and read the same book forever. When I started researching addiction science, then I realized, oh, we change. Our brains reorganize, we form new neural networks, new pathways. We we can completely change as human beings. And that is so much more of a hopeful message than you will forever be an alcoholic with a disease. And and I also came to learn I don't have a disease. My brain was dis-ased. My brain was in a state and a frequency that was dis-ased at the time. And through, you know, changing in habits and a myriad of other factors over time, uh, I believe that I have completely rewired. I mean, every cell in your body changes every seven years, right? You become a new human being. So yeah, it just, and I didn't want sobriety to feel like it was based on willpower, it was based on white knuckling, it was based on shame, any of that. You know, I wanted it to be hopeful.

MicheleFolan:

Yeah. You know, I just recorded a podcast about manifestation. And I see there's some parallels here with how we can manifest things, we can believe something and almost make it happen, even though it may not be your true reality. But maybe in a sense, this is kind of the same thing where you can through positive talk and I guess manifestation, you can start to recover, you know, make make that pathway happen in your brain. Does that make sense? Absolutely does.

KateVitela:

And there is a component of that. Our thoughts create our reality, right? So and I just um did a training module on this mindset going into recovery is huge. If you tell yourself this is gonna suck and it's gonna go forever and be horrible and I'm not gonna have any fun, you know, your brain is you're gonna look for evidence to prove that statement to be true. But if you're willing to stay curious about what's ahead, and if you can envision yourself a year or two down the road, living sober, free, healthy, feeling good, sleeping good, eating good, having fun, enjoying your life. If you can envision that, it's easier to get there. So, yeah, there is an element of manifesting in this. There's an element, there's a big mindset component here.

MicheleFolan:

Kate, we're gonna take a quick break and we come back. I want to talk a little bit more about those neuropathways. A diagnosis of osteoporosis can feel scary and overwhelming, but it doesn't have to be the end of your story. The truth is you do have tools and resources to build stronger bones and protect your future. That's why I've partnered with Osteo Collective, an incredible platform dedicated to helping women navigate osteoporosis with confidence. From expert-led workouts and educational resources to a supportive community of women just like you, the Osteo Collective gives you the knowledge and encouragement to take back control of your bone health. And here's the best part you can try it free for one week. Just click the link in the show notes to start your trial today and discover how to move forward with strength and hope. Okay, we are back. So, what you're kind of telling me is that it's important to create these new pathways instead of trying to eliminate old ones, correct?

KateVitela:

Yeah, it's kind of like if you had a bridge on the freeway and you, you know, you destroyed it, you took a you know, bulldozer to it, then you'd have nowhere to go. So you you have to build a new, more efficient bridge. So you you build new habit structures, new thought loops, new routines. You know, you you rebuild your mindset and it it all comes together in in the concept of neuroplasticity. People throw around the phrase neurons that fire together, wire together. Well, what does that even mean, right? What does that actually mean for your brain? So your brain is made up of neurons, right? Little teeny tiny cells that are sending chemical and electrical signals. And when you partner those, when you when two activate at the same time, so you have a thought that leads to a feeling that leads to a behavior. So thought being, oh, I've had a horrible day. I just, you know, my routine is always that I go home and take my shoes off and cook dinner and drink wine. Okay, there's your thought there. Your feeling is, oh, I'm craving a glass of wine. There's some cold Chardonnay in the fridge. Okay, you pour that, you know, behavior, you drank, you got some temporary relief. And then, you know, whatever happens after that, I'm sorry. I'm, you know, I've been there. But so there's a little pattern right there. So all those little neural networks, they kind of fire and wire together. So it becomes this well-worn path. So automatically when you come home, your brain's like, oh, I know what to do. You know, this little tiny algorithm, it knows exactly where to go. And you find yourself almost on autopilot, reaching for that, reaching, reaching. And it it takes some like pause, you know, pattern interrupt recognition, and really examining, oh, wow, this is what I'm doing. And you can you can start new patterns, you can blaze a new trail, you know, if if that makes sense in that, you know, the first component of neuroplasticity is that that those neurons firing and wiring together, you know, we can change that. We can we can chart a new course.

MicheleFolan:

So this is where I think a lot of women get stuck. It's the cooking dinner, like you said, pouring the glass of wine, because that that's kind of the ritual, the habit that we we get into. And the other thing, Kate, that I believe a lot of women think that's my last joy in life is my evening glass of wine, right?

KateVitela:

I've heard that.

MicheleFolan:

You know, it it's and that's very real because I hear this from clients when I say, Hey, how about for the next six weeks we dial that back? And I know for some of them it feels like I am taking away something, their their joy, their their pleasure, their reward. Because I think for a lot of people it's just the reward after a long day. So, how do we get ourselves out of that? Because it is such a habit.

KateVitela:

Yeah. I've heard that so many times. I mean, clients come to me, this is the last candy in my dish, you know. I hate to give this up. And I understand, I was there, you know, wine was my best friend. But I think you have to step back. You have to step back and think, okay, it's not about the wine, it's about what the wine represents. And you said it right there. It's a reward, it's a relief. It represents a moment of exhale. And for a lot of women in particular, this is why I love coaching women, it's about putting a final buffer between meeting everybody else's needs and your own. Right? It's that final place of like, oh no, this is me time. I have met everyone's needs all damn day long. The dog, the kids, the husband, the house, the career, running around doing everything for everyone. And this is that rebellious act in your mind, right, that says, oh no, this one is for me. The little tiny bit of like, this is mine, right? And so if we can step back from that and recognize, oh, well, maybe there's other things in our life we're needing besides that glass of wine. Maybe we need boundaries, maybe we need communication tools with our family that says, pick up your own shit. I am not your maid. Maybe we need to quit being a doormat, being so codependent, people pleasing, fawning, you know. Or maybe it's not about that at all. Maybe it's about finding a resting place that you don't have to recover from. Because we we think wine is our exhale and our rest, but then we have to recover from that. Yeah. And most people do that because they don't know there's a better way out there, they don't know there's a better life. I was one of them. I had, you know, 17 years as an RN. I had no concept that there was a better way to wind down. No one ever taught me. So I absolutely get it.

MicheleFolan:

Yeah, and we talk a lot on this podcast about self-care. And self-care can mean a lot of different things. Maybe it is that time you take for yourself. You're like, okay, everybody, I'm taking 20 minutes. Do not come find me, do not bother me. And maybe that's just so you can take a quick walk around the block, or you want to go sit in your favorite chair, or whatever the case might be. Does it have to be a glass of wine? Can it be something else? And for me, it it is that that walk after dinner, or and maybe and maybe I go with my husband and the dogs, but those are my little moments where I get to do something for myself during the day. I want to ask you a question. This just popped in my head. What's your feeling about mocktails?

KateVitela:

You know, it's very individualized. I have some clients that switch immediately to mocktails and it really helps them get through early sobriety and they love the switch. It gives them a good replacement. They don't feel like they're missing out. And then I have some people that mocktails are triggering. You know, they remind you of the smell, the feeling, the whole representation of drinking. So I think it's very individualized. You know, only you know if it's triggering or not. Personally, for me, I didn't do the mocktail thing in early sobriety because it was triggering. I didn't want to drink a fake beer or a fake glass of wine because I was too, I was working too hard to not do the real thing. I didn't want to taste something that, you know, I didn't want to drink fermented grapes. I I wanted, you know, I wanted the real thing. So it I think it's very nuanced. But you know, some clients I work with, it does, it does well for them.

MicheleFolan:

So for myself, I will say, I think some of that wine craving at like while I was cooking dinner, I think I was craving the sugar more than anything. That it there was that, okay, it's dinner time, I'm kind of hungry. And so what I have found is doing a mocktail kind of cuts that edge, and then I'm I'm good. I'm good for the night. So I was just kind of curious because I know some people have said that it can be it can be triggering. And from somebody that's been through sobriety, I just wanted to know what you thought about that.

KateVitela:

Yeah, I think you're spot on about the sugar component, though. Early sobriety, you know, there's sugar cravings, and so you can get a nice little sugar fix from a mocktail. You can also eat a handful of candy if you need to. You know, low blood sugar is a huge reason, is a huge trigger for cravings. So, you know, they say hungry, angry, lonely, or tired, right? And check yourself, you know. I like to say your craving is a smoke signal. It's a messenger for what your brain and body need. And if you're able to pause and kind of check yourself a little bit and you feel that weird, low blood sugary, hangry feeling, eat some sugar, you know, and then of course eat some protein and drink some water and do the right things. But in the beginning, when you're just getting off of alcohol, go for the sugar, man. I don't even care. I tell clients, you have one job, and that is to not drink alcohol. Like we'll tackle the other stuff incrementally. In the beginning, when you're forming a new habit and maybe it's gonna take a few months, a new routine, eat all the damn sugar you want. I don't even care. We're, you know, we're saving our own lives here. Yeah.

MicheleFolan:

You know, and there was a there was a time when I'd be at a restaurant, and I know my friends do this too, where you're like, I don't want dessert, but I will have another glass of wine. So we would trade one for the other. And many, many women in sobriety, or when they start cutting back on alcohol, they're like, Why am I why aren't I losing weight? And many times it's because you're you're balancing the cravings with eating probably more carbohydrate. And that's a natural thing to do. You do eventually, though, your body responds in kind with weight loss. And this is just this is my the that's the vanity perspective of this is that your body loses a lot of that inflammation that it's been carrying, particularly in your face. I don't think people realize the the difference in your glow when you do refrain from alcohol. So that's the one thing. How often do you get into, you know, related to seven, at least seven different cancers, the long-term health ramifications. Do you coach your your clients through that?

KateVitela:

You know, I don't. I actually don't because here's the thing people know, right? It's not about information, it's about transformation. We know what the data's out there. It's related to seven different cancers, it will do all these bad things. Ever we know we don't we don't need to be beat over the head with more information because people don't change from that. What they change from is introspection and you know, examining and a compassionate space. We all know it's a carcinogenic, it's not good for you, but I think you you gotta dig deeper than that. I I don't I don't go on and on and on about all the shameful, harmful effects of alcohol. That that doesn't seem to be helpful. But what I will say is there are times when I will go to something, okay, let's talk about what's meaningful for you. You've mentioned that it's vanity and the weight loss. Okay, so vanity is important. I don't care if you get sober for vanity. That's that's a good enough reason for me. Dude, I mean, my face was so puffy and bloated when I first got sober. I looked like the hamburglar. I mean, it was vanity was a part of it. But I think you mentioned something that I and I and I hear this a lot and I don't know in the comparison game. There's actually a, I think it's a reel or a meme or some kind of video going around the internet where a guy compares, okay, you could have 500 calories or however many calories, I think it's 500 calories in a thing of McDonald's French fries, or you could have like three or four glasses of Chardonnay for that many calories. And it's like, oh duh, I'm gonna pick the Chardonnay. No, no, no. It's not about the calories. People think, oh, there's, you know, 100 calories in a glass of Chardonnay, and there's a hundred calories in this little tiny slice of cake. Which one do I choose? It's not about the calories, it's the cascade of events that happen when you drink that prevents you from weight loss. It's not a swap. One glass of wine. I mean, one glass, it's not about the calories. You are talking about hijacking your reward centers. You are talking about hijacking your sleep. One glass affects REM sleep, your circadian rhythm affects your hormones. You know, and when we talk about hormones, then we immediately go into weight loss hormones, you know, gremlin. I call it gremlin. Well, your hunger hormones increase, your leptin decreases, your satiation. So, I mean, it's a cascade of things. And let's stop talking about the calories and start talking about, you know, weight loss is a is an entirely systemic process, mind, body, soul, you know, it's it's it's more than just what goes in our mouth. And so those are areas where I can dive in with information that resonates, that transforms versus shames people.

MicheleFolan:

You know, back to your sleep comment. I did I did my own little experiment because I have people tell me all the time, oh, when I drink, I just my hit hits the pillow, I sleep like a baby. I'm like, oh, you think so, huh? I did my own experiment. So had bourbon, had a bourbon with my husband one night. Sleep score, like 62. He was gone for 10 days and I didn't drink anything. My sleep scores were 91, 94, 89. Now, I would never know that other than the fact that I wore a sleep tracker, but it is absolutely one drink can set you off on a cascade of poor sleep. And when we get poor sleep, we make poor choices the next day about food. We tend to gravitate toward more carbohydrate. It's just, I think it's these types of pieces of data that really kind of set the stage for really, what is this doing for me? Right. And and Kate and I have talked about this because I when I was a guest on her podcast, I still do have an occasional drink. But I even now look at that one drink and say, uh, do I really want that? Is that what's that gonna do for me tomorrow? How am I gonna sleep tonight? And oftentimes it's I don't, I guess what I want to say, it's losing its appeal altogether. And the other thing I wanted to talk about, Kate, is moderation, because I think you and I have a kind of different perspective on this. This would probably be the only place where I think you and I may have a different thought process. Can you share with the listeners what you what your philosophy is on moderation and does it have a place?

KateVitela:

Well, you know, I'm not the alcohol police, right? Like I'm not the sober Illuminati. I don't care if people drink. Like, there might be people who can there are people who can moderate. And if you are one of them who can truly moderate your alcohol, good on you. You go with your bad moderation self. That's completely individualized. You know, I feel like so much of this journey is nuanced and individualized. You know, if you've seen one person's recovery, you've seen one person's recovery. That's my philosophy. Personally, I've never seen moderation work with a person who is physically, physiologically, mentally addicted. You will end up in a loop of mental gymnastics obsessing over alcohol, even if it's obsessing over the moderation. Of course, I could never moderate. Moderating was the holy grail. It was the elusive thing in the sky where if I could just moderate. And that myth of normal, it kept me stuck for another five years. I tried watering down the wine, I tried water in between the wine, I tried food, I tried having my partner limit my drinks, only drinking on the weekends. I mean, the amount of time and energy I spent moderating, I wish I could have those years back, trying to moderate, I should say. But that's me. Now, there might be people out there, and there are people out there who can have one drink here and there at a wedding, at an event, you know, on a weekend, and and then they can take it or leave it for weeks or at a time or or whatever. That's that's a totally different story. I mean, if if there's someone who wants to live like that and it doesn't affect you and you're not obsessing, go ahead. It's fine. It's your choice, you know. But I think the funny thing about the word moderation is if you think of alcohol in its true form of what it is, ethanol and poison, then moderation is microdosing poison. And is that really your end goal in life? Right. That's I that's a personal decision.

MicheleFolan:

And that's where I am. That's where my that's where my sensibilities kick in. I'm like, what? You know, okay, yeah, sure. I can have, I don't really drink wine anymore, but I could do the the cocktail, right? Because it's fun and festive, but could I just do the mocktail and be better off? And so this is where I am in my journey with all of this. And so my my point in bringing this up is I have listeners right now that are in my shoes. I also have listeners who are struggling with this, and then there's some kind of in between where they're they want to cut back and they know they should, and moderation may be a great place for them to start, you know. So, like I said, I kind of came to where I am on my own, but I do know that there are people out there that just shouldn't drink at all because there's no the the on-off switch is is broken.

KateVitela:

And I personally feel like the more you try to moderate and fail, the more you just crush your self-trust, your personal sense of agency, you know, your self-esteem, it just demolishes you over time. It's such a shameful cycle when you're trying to moderate and failing. So I would caution that.

MicheleFolan:

Yeah.

KateVitela:

You know, for people, if you're trying to moderate and it's leading you to fail and more shame and you're stuck in that loop, you know, that's I I don't want to see anybody go through that because I went through it and it was horrific. Now, for you, let's say in your particular situation, I mean, we're coach to coach here, and I gotta ask you the question, yeah. What are you making it mean that you can moderate? Because you said maybe I just have a mock tail instead. So what is that? What is that moderation, that one glass here and there, what does that mean to you? Um, you know, I mean, that's a great question.

MicheleFolan:

I think it's just telling myself that I I can still do this, but I I don't have it, it's not a problem for me. So I mean, I never had, I never had a rock bottom moment. I never had but but there were times, you know, and I shared this with you during COVID where I would almost polish off a whole bottle of wine, but I wouldn't drink the whole thing just because I didn't want to say I finished the whole bottle because we we were doing nothing but sitting at home watching Netflix. That was my turning point was I don't like feeling this way the next day. This is gross. I don't have energy, I don't feel motivated. I don't like this. This is yuck. And going into midlife and menopause, my body couldn't handle that any longer. And that, you know, we we know that. And um, and I want better for myself. I want better for my health because I want to live to be in my 90s.

KateVitela:

So it sounds like for you to have that one glass every now and then, it's different. What you're telling yourself is that but the fact that you can moderate is differentiating you from people that can't. And it's also reminding you that you don't have a problem, that you're you're sort of othering in a sense. Like you're you can moderate because you're not like those other people. Although you see no reason why you're having this glass of wine, like no health benefits. No, no, right.

MicheleFolan:

I mean, I I think I think you're spot on. I mean, I didn't intend for this to become a coaching session, but I think this is good for other people to hear. Kate's laughing. But it doesn't, this doesn't bother me at all because I've been very forthright with my listeners about alcohol. And I I continue to have this topic come up because I see so much out there being at a store and seeing, you know, mommy back to school time. And it was a huge wine display. But that kind of stuff I think is toxic because we're we're normalizing that. And worse yet, our kids see that. But I I don't I don't want kids to, you know, wonder, you know, what's in mom's Yeti in her go cup, right? I mean, that's that's kind of uh that that just doesn't feel good to me. So and then and we know that now I think it's 54% of adults say that they're not drinking. So the pendulum seems to be swinging, but I don't know if that is for midlife women. I don't know if we're necessarily getting the message.

KateVitela:

You know, I can't I can't speak to that statistic. I don't know as if it's midlife women either. I think and and here's where I want to empathize with you in in holding on to that one glass of wine is that there's so much more nuance to being in midlife. And especially being a woman, you know, we kind of want to hold on to the little bit of power we have, we want to hold on to the choices that we have, the the feeling of control that we have. And I think that is a huge part of womaning and wifing and momming and lifing. And I absolutely understand that. As a woman who did not want to give it up, you know, I look back at myself and it's like, God, you know, everybody always told me what to do, where to go, how to be. I was always dancing around to meet other people's expectations. I just wanted something for me. And I wanted to rebel a little bit. Because, you know, as a woman in this world, I don't have a lot of control or power sometimes. You know, the patriarchy has a tendency to kick my ass sometimes. And I get that. Absolutely. And so if we if we can speak to that from a sense of like, fuck, we get it. We get it. Let's sit in circle as women together and talk about how do we take our power back? Because it's not with what's not with wine.

MicheleFolan:

No, it's not. And I being on this health journey has been probably the best thing that I've done for myself, in which I try to take women along with me on this ride because it has opened my eyes to not just my overall health and longevity, but that self-care, prioritize me. I've done this for everybody else for all these years. This is my time. You know, I used to not love going to the gym. Now I love going to the gym because I'm doing this for me. It's because I am I'm making myself a priority. And so if that means for you, making yourself a priority is reassessing your relationship with alcohol, food, whatever that is, do it because this is the time. This is the time to have that conversation with yourself.

KateVitela:

So you had said on on my podcast, I just listened to it the other day, and you said some really empowering stuff about what it means to be in midlife and you know, taking your power back as a woman and and being so embodied with the fact that in your midlife is is a reinvention and it's a it's a whole new time and a whole new chapter. And what that brought about for me was that midlife is kind of like the best time to quit drinking. Because as a as a woman, as anyone in midlife, like we've kind of been there, done that, right? We have a little bit more motivation, a little bit more sense of urgency to change. And we already know what doesn't work for us. So, I mean, I coach midlife women into stopping drinking and staying sober, particularly because midlife is the best time. I mean, obviously, never imbibing in the first place. Is that realistic? Well, maybe not, not unless you live in an Amish community, okay? Let's be realistic. But I love coaching women around the midlife because so much is changing. And the conversation is so different around taking your power back. What can be yours that isn't harmful? The gym routine, a new creative routine, you know, interest in a new career or a new path and volunteering. You know, this is the time of reinvention. I love that.

MicheleFolan:

And speaking of which, when you work with clients, what does that look like? What kind of program do you have set up?

KateVitela:

Yeah, in fact, just in the next couple of weeks, I'm opening uh a group coaching container. And I believe I'll be moving into group coaching um only going forward. I was doing just one-on-one sessions with people. We would meet weekly for like an hour on Zoom, but there's only one of me, right? And there's only so many people I can meet with. And so we're we're transitioning over to a group model, still meeting weekly live as a group, and then there'll be some educational materials. But what I've found over time is so much of what speeds up the process, the benefits, the enjoyment of recovery is the relational safety, the bonding with other women, you know, sort of co-regulating our nervous system together. And I, you know, groups really are super helpful that way. So so in in about two weeks, I'll be opening uh just for group sessions.

MicheleFolan:

Oh, I think that's great. I think community is essential for this process. I think you're smart to do that. Um, it lets people know I'm not alone. They feel that they've got this additional little support lifeline. It's uh I think that's really great on your part to pursue that.

KateVitela:

That's awesome. Well, and it's also born out of a need, right? Like there's a lot of groups that I see out there, and I'm part of them, where they're support groups. You go, you share, and then you zip it. And you don't really get a lot of guidance because the people leading the groups are just hosts, they're just facilitators, they're just holding space. So it's one woman after the other, kind of dumping their problems next, dump next. And and we we leave and I think without a lot of direction. And so I wanted a place where, you know, you come to me with a win and a challenge, and we'll together form an action step step, and I'll live coach you with other people so that it it's more purposeful, right? And you're leaving with more of um of an intention setting versus just coming to dump your dump your problems and leave. Yeah, but but I think they're that that structure's good though. Uh yeah, both are both are necessary.

MicheleFolan:

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I no, I think that would be vital. This is a personal question for you. You mentioned I I found something out there. You you talk a little bit about disordered eating. Do you think there were parallels with the disordered eating and your addiction with alcohol?

KateVitela:

Absolutely there, yeah, absolutely. Uh, I commonly talk about a term uh drunkorexia, restricting calories that you would reserve to, you know, spend on alcohol, just like we were talking about, because you think it's a direct caloric exchange. And I went through a period of my life when I first started restricting, and then I started drinking because my blood sugar was low and I was hungry. So it went from restricting, heavy drinking, to then binge eating, bulimia, and it was this nasty cycle. And for so many women, there's a correlation. It's something like one in five struggle with both co-occurring, um, you know, disordered eating and substance use. You know, and so, yes, very, very common. There's overlapping issues with blood sugar, with all the things, right? Identity, burnout, fatigue, self-esteem, you know, your wiring, all of it. And it it took me a while to step back from all of it and realize before I started drinking, like food was maybe my first addiction.

MicheleFolan:

I appreciate you addressing this because this is not something that we have covered before, but it it's good for women to see that there can't be a correlation there with food and and alcohol. Kate, what is one of your personal core pillars of self-care that you never compromise on?

KateVitela:

I have I have quite a bit because I I live in a routine and I do not compromise my routine. But I'm gonna have to say sleep. That is a hundred percent of the time something that I is is super important to me. I maintain that no matter what. A night of quote partying for me is staying up till 10, 11 o'clock, having too many diet cokes, you know, maybe getting a little bit of restless sleep because I had too much caffeine. But sleep is my number one. In fact, part of the reason I began drinking in the first place was I was a horrible insomniac. And I thought, you know, you drink and then you just go right to sleep. You pass out. And so it started for me like drinking to sleep. And um, once I learned the way, you know, sleep hygiene, and I was able to get good sleep, I got on the right sleeping medication, I did all the right things, and I can get a restful night's sleep. Oh my God, game changer.

MicheleFolan:

Yeah, it is the foundation of everything, isn't it? Yeah. Sleep, good sleep, because it it really does set you up for success the next day. I I swear by it. I love it. Kate Vitella, where can listeners find you and connect with your work and tune into Rewired Sober?

KateVitela:

Yeah, so Rewired Sober is my handle name for all the socials Instagram, Facebook, TikTok. Yes, I'm on TikTok. I'm so proud of myself. 46-year-old woman who figured out how to use TikTok like a week ago. Seriously. Um yeah, my and my podcast also called Rewired Sober. It streams anywhere you listen. Apple, you know, Spotify, any of the podcasts, it's it's it's anywhere. So um, and then there'll be links to jump in to group coaching if you want to.

MicheleFolan:

Okay. All right, everybody, make a note of that. Follow Kate. She is very inspirational. You'll you'll love her Instagram and check out her podcast, Rewired Sober. Even if you don't think you have an issue with alcohol, you might be very intrigued by the guests that she has on the show, including me. I forgot. I'm I was on her show. It's you! Yeah. So um, thank you for being here today, Kate. Thank you. Thank you for listening. Please rate and review the podcast where you listen. And if you'd like to join the Asking for a Friend community, click on the link in the show notes to sign up for my weekly newsletter where I share midlife wellness and fitness tips, insights, my favorite finds, and recipes.