Asking for a Friend - Health, Fitness & Personal Growth Tips for Women in Midlife

Ep.144 Midlife Careers and Knowing Your Value - Love Your Work and Have It Serve Your Life

• Michele Henning Folan • Episode 144

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What happens when a seasoned career takes an unexpected turn in the middle of a global pandemic? I found myself facing that very question, jobless and searching for purpose. Join me as we unpack midlife career journeys with career expert Julie Bauke, who brings over 25 years of experience to the table. Together, we explore the challenges and opportunities for women over 50 in a rapidly evolving workforce that now includes Gen Z. Julie's insights reveal how viewing our careers as a series of chapters can empower women to leverage their skills and experiences, even after career interruptions.

Feeling stuck or uncertain about your career path? You're not alone. In this episode, we tackle common feelings of discontent, transforming them into starting points for self-discovery and career fulfillment. By reflecting on what truly matters in your professional life, we share strategies for taking actionable steps toward a more satisfying career. Whether it's embracing the fear of failure or choosing change over stagnation, this conversation is about understanding where you are and where you want to be, offering clarity and determination for the journey ahead.

Our discussion goes further, addressing the critical aspects of salary negotiations and the power of mentorship. With a focus on intergenerational relationships, we highlight how younger professionals can benefit from the wisdom of seasoned mentors. Julie shares strategies for successful salary negotiations, stressing the importance of market data over personal financial needs. We aim to equip all women with the tools they need to take control of their careers, emphasizing readiness for unexpected changes in the job market. Through stories and advice, we aspire to inspire women to confidently navigate their career paths and embrace their inherent value.

You can find Julie Bauke at:

https://thebaukegroup.com/

https://www.instagram.com/julieonthejob/

https://www.linkedin.com/in/juliebauke/


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Michele Folan:

Even if you're not in the midst of a full-blown career. I believe this episode is valuable for all women. We're not going to just be discussing mature women in the corporate world. If you have a daughter or other female family member who is just entering the workforce or is currently employed, this show will provide professional guidance as we navigate the sometimes uncertain waters of the workplace, and much of what we discuss are things that we wish we would have known back in the day. Health, wellness, fitness and everything in between. We're removing the taboo from what really matters in midlife. I'm your host, Michele Folan, and this is Asking for a Friend.

Michele Folan:

Back in 2020, when I lost my job right before the pandemic shutdown, I went into a career spiral. No one seemed to be hiring. I was in my mid-50s and really didn't want to take a job, just to have a job. I used this precious time as a respite to figure out what was really important to me, but as I was still struggling to find a good fit, I enlisted the help of today's guests to help me navigate this era in my life and to provide insights into this new job market, and boy am I glad I did.

Michele Folan:

Julie Bauke believes that we all deserve careers that serve our lives. Her 25-plus years of experience working with executives, professional athletes and career-focused people of all industries and professions brings practical inspiration on how to live our best career lives from start to finish. Julie is a sought-after national media expert, workshop facilitator and keynote speaker. Julie's been featured by more than 100 prominent media outlets, including CNBC, money Magazine and TV segments, with the Scripps News Network and Sinclair Broadcasting appearing on their TV stations. Nationwide, she is a regular contributor on the top radio stations in New York, chicago, dallas and San Francisco, san Diego, los Angeles and Miami. She is the author of Stop Peeing on your Shoes Avoiding the Seven Mistakes that Screw Up your Job Search, and the creator of Career Catalyst an intentional career management experience. And I will also say she was one of my very first guests on the podcast, and that was way back in episode three. Julie, can you believe that? Wow?

Julie Bauke:

So I'm kind of an OG here, huh.

Michele Folan:

Yes, yes, you are. But I'm so glad we reconnected because I'm working with clients now and many of them are still in the workforce or they are at that point in their life where they are empty nesters and they're wanting to get back into the workforce and I thought, hmm, this is such a great topic to broach again and so welcome to the show.

Julie Bauke:

Thank you. We're talking about my favorite subject today. We're talking to my favorite audience women. Women who are stuck, struggling, confused about what's next.

Michele Folan:

Yeah, and most of my audience is 50 plus women and I'm curious what you're seeing in the job market for mature women right now.

Julie Bauke:

The job market. Let's just call it. The workplace is a mess, especially post-COVID. Everybody is. People are trying to figure out everything, from return to the office hybrid to how do I manage all the pieces of my life.

Julie Bauke:

Gen Z has come into the workforce, michelle. This past summer we had the moment when Gen Z started to outnumber boomers in the workforce, and so their time to run the workplace is coming quickly, and so it's easy to see especially when you have such a difference between how Gen Z looks at work and how boomers look at work and older Xers it's easy to start to feel like you don't matter anymore. But at the same time, I think if we reframe how we look at our careers and our lives, we can move forward in a way where we're much more likely to get what we want. But it really does require a reframing. That's very different than when we came into the job market. We were wearing those god-awful pantyhose and suits with those bow ties, and you think, just the change we've seen since we were in our twenties to now. So we have to change our thinking along with that.

Michele Folan:

Well, we didn't even have computers. No, gosh, we didn't have cell phones.

Julie Bauke:

Oh no, I mean right, we had pink message slips If someone wanted to call you. You got a pile of those pink message slips.

Michele Folan:

I was in sales, Julie, I knew where all the great pay phones were around town that had a bathroom in the building.

Julie Bauke:

Oh, my gosh.

Michele Folan:

Because that's how I was able to communicate with people.

Julie Bauke:

Yeah, yeah. So much has changed, so I think we're due for another look at how we consider work in our career, role in our lives.

Michele Folan:

Yeah. So what do women need to be thinking about before they even start, before they even put words onto a resume?

Julie Bauke:

One of the things that has always really frustrated me is you'll have a woman who was in a high-powered job, a great job, she did really well, she was competent, she was paid well. She leaves the workforce to have children. Maybe she's out of the workforce for five years, maybe it's eight to 10 years. I have talked to so many women who believe, at the end of that period where they're trying to come back, that they're fully starting from zero Because we forget about all that great experience we had. We personally decide, oh, it's not relevant, nobody cares, and we feel like we're only going back into the workforce as a mom, and that's a huge mistake because we are the collection of all of our experiences. So here's the reframe I'd like to lead with.

Julie Bauke:

Today we all are very accepting of the concept of life has chapters. We have our chapter as a student, as a single person, maybe as a part of a partnership. We take care of our kids. We might have health issues. You know we chat and just think about how life changes when your kids get their driver's license. Yeah, so we enter. Our life has chapters and our career can also have chapters. And so this idea that when you're 22, you get on a ladder and you climb for 40 plus years is ridiculous. It's always been ridiculous. But now we're starting to see and I give Gen Z credit for this that we have to look at our careers. We have to look our career needs to serve our lives versus having our lives serve our career. Yeah, especially as women, with all of the things we're responsible for, we all know by this point we can't do it all at the same time.

Julie Bauke:

And so when you are, you might have your chapter early career, where you were in sales, you were in sales leadership, you did all these great things. You get out of the workforce, maybe for a few years until your kids get into kindergarten or first grade that was a different chapter. Maybe you did volunteer work, maybe you helped the school, maybe you did some little bit of consulting part time that's another chapter. And then, when you're ready to reenter, that's another chapter. And you bring with you all the learnings from those two first chapters. Right, and so, instead of thinking, well, here I am, you know who wants to hire an old mom, which is what I hear women say. No, you have to. Your story is a collection of all of your chapters that you bring with you. You leave nothing behind. All of your chapters that you bring with you, you leave nothing behind. So if you can get your mind around that concept, I think that's a great start to start moving forward powerfully.

Michele Folan:

If you have Gen Z interviewing you, they're the hiring manager. Does Gen Z see it that way?

Julie Bauke:

You know, they probably see us just like we did when we were younger, interviewing people a lot older than us. It's a challenge. It's because if you look like their mom or their grandma, it's hard for them to see you any differently. So the worst thing you can do when you're interviewing with somebody who's much younger is discount them. Act like you're interviewing with somebody who's much younger, is discount them. Act like you're smarter, wiser, any of that stuff because they see right through it.

Julie Bauke:

Gen Z is all about authenticity, and so when you think about what do you, as a person over a certain age, bring to the market?

Julie Bauke:

It's wisdom, it's experience, it's the ability to collaborate, communicate, etc. Those are the things that we are better at, because the complaints have been that Gen Z is bad at all those things. But at the same time, I firmly believe it's up to each one of us to stay relevant in our fields. In our fields, it doesn't mean we have to be an expert on AI, as an example, but we do need to know how AI is being used in our field or in our industry as an example. So if you walk in with anything that looks like I'm a boomer and I mean the way you dress, the way you speak, if you are patronizing in any way and if you say anything like well, you know, I don't really know that and I don't really care to learn it anything that smacks of the way we did it was the right way and you guys don't know what you're doing. You will absolutely, you will absolutely bond that interview and so it's. You have to really check your biases at the door, and I say that I would say that both ways.

Michele Folan:

So what you're saying is don't show up in your navy blue suit it may have a nice sheen to it by now and tan and tan pantyhose.

Julie Bauke:

Tan pantyhose that come in those little plastic eggs, yeah, yeah. But you know, when you're speaking of dress, I mean, how do you dress? So you know it depends. If you are going to interview at a bank or an insurance company, then you do need to dress more conservatively than if you're going to interview at a social media marketing firm or a nonprofit. You have to know the environment. Firm or a nonprofit, you have to know the environment. You have to show that you know how to read the environment, that you are aware and that you can fit in, and you're not going to walk in and start saying, yeah, I'm here now. I'm going to tell you how we did it back in my day. That is such a turnoff and it's going to guarantee that you're not going to get that next interview because every generation thinks they're smarter than the ones behind them.

Michele Folan:

You said something to me years ago and it was one of the things that is challenging for you as a career coach is that people don't really know what they want, or they're not able to define what that is. Can you talk a little bit about that?

Julie Bauke:

Yeah, yeah. So imagine you're getting in your car. You're like I would like to go to the XYZ restaurant I heard it's great. And if you get in your car and you just start driving without knowing actually where you're going, then you won't get there. Career is the same way. You have to start with the end in mind. Google Maps only works if you put a destination in. Now you might find that restaurant, but it's not going to be the best way to get there and so hopelessly and helplessly wandering through a career change or a job search is really, really counterproductive. So this is what keeps people from starting they're starting a change.

Julie Bauke:

Some of the things that I hear people say is things like I still don't know what I want to be when I grow up, and that's one of those things I cringe because I want to say look in the mirror, you're not 18. You're grown up, you got to figure it out. It's very infantilizing and I think it's also. It takes away your power. The second one is I don't know what I want, but I know it's not this, and I always say well, that's a starting point. You know, sometimes knowing what we don't want is the same as can help narrow. So the idea is you've got this funnel. At the very top are people who truly are 1,000% confused, and I always think of a friend of mine when his daughter was three or four. She said when I grow up, I either want to be a ballerina or the person that picks dead animals up off the road. It's like that is truly two very different things. And she works in a museum now. So when we are way up at the top of the funnel, I have no earthly idea what I want to do. I always say that's a load of crap. Of course you do. I have no earthly idea what I want to do. I always say that's a load of crap. Of course you do. You know what you want to do. You know what you know. You at least know. Maybe you don't know what it's called, so you don't know what to look for.

Julie Bauke:

But when you start asking people questions, and one of the questions I will ask is think about your current situation. Scale of one to 10. Okay, how happy are you? Scale of one to 10. Okay, how happy are you? Let's say I say okay, I'm a four. Okay, what is it that would have to change? So what in your current role makes it a four for you.

Julie Bauke:

What would have to change to move that up to a five, six, seven, eight? In other words, what do you want to do more of, what do you want to do less of? What do you never want to do again? And if you just start with that and people generally, with some prodding, can start getting to that and so you start narrowing from in my next role, I want more of this, less of this. Okay, that scoots you toward more career happiness. So self-knowledge I think everything good in the world starts with self-knowledge and self-awareness, and so understanding that if you're in a job that's not a good fit for you, it doesn't mean you're wrong, it just means you're in the wrong job or you're in the wrong place, you're in the wrong organization, and so diagnosing and figuring out what's not working where you are is the first step toward getting closer to something that is going to be a good fit, the first step toward getting closer to something that is going to be a good fit.

Michele Folan:

Do you ever find that sometimes we have a problem defining what it is that we really want to do? Because it's that fear of failure, that thing that I know I really want to do. I'm afraid that no one's going to hire me for that, so I'm not going to verbalize that.

Julie Bauke:

Yeah, you know what we all fall into, that. I fall into that when I think about pitching a big media outlet or I think about, ooh, what if I could do that? A lot of my first instinct is, no, I can't do that. I think we do that. I think that head talk is so strong and it keeps us from reaching out and trying something. And so sometimes if you say, all right, what does that look like? So what address did I put in my GPS? Man, this is really where I want to end up. How can I, what can I do to move toward it? Because sometimes, seeing where you want to go and where you are now, the distance is so great that it makes us want to go back to bed and pull the covers over our head. And so how can you move toward it?

Julie Bauke:

And when I talk to people a lot of times who are miserable, what's your career happiness on a scale of one to 10? A two? I'm like, okay, let's talk about that. What is the impact in your life of being miserable at work? And you know it's going to be health, it's going to be relationships, it's going to be I don't go out, it's my energy level when you are wearing a pair of shoes that don't fit, not only do your feet hurt, but your knees hurt, your hip hurts, and Not only do your feet hurt, but your knees hurt, your hip hurts and pretty soon you're all bent over.

Julie Bauke:

So if you're going to stay at a two or a three or a four, there's a price to that. It's painful, and so you have to decide. It's painful in one way, but moving forward and moving towards something that's better is difficult. It challenges all of your beliefs about yourself. It makes you feel vulnerable. It's a different kind of pain, and so I always say pick your pain. Look, if you're in a role and you're a six on a scale of one to 10, and you've got a year or two left to work, go for it. And then go do something fun and go do something you know. Stay for a couple of years if you need to, and if six is good enough for you because you get your real jollies outside of work coaching kids, you know, doing other things it's okay. This is not. But the question is you have to figure out where you are before you can figure out where you want to be. And once you get those two things figured out, then the path becomes much easier. It's not easy.

Michele Folan:

It's easier. Hey, julie, we're going to take a quick break and we will be right back. Are you feeling overwhelmed by the changes that come with midlife, struggling with weight, energy or finding time for yourself? You're not alone. I get it because I've been there too. I specialize in helping midlife women, just like you, transform their health and lives through personalized nutrition and coaching that fits your real life. Together, we'll tackle those unique challenges, whether it's balancing your hormones, dealing with cravings or boosting your energy. It's not just about diets. It's about reclaiming your strength and confidence, one step at a time.

Michele Folan:

Check out the show notes of this episode and shoot me an email. I'd love to learn more about you and your challenges. Okay, we are back. Julie, I did have a question for you. So when you're working with a client and I'll use me as an example been in the workforce for a very long time you are looking for a new opportunity, but you don't want to go back to the industry that you have the most experience in because you just can't do it right. Yeah, how does someone vet what their qualifications would be, what their talents will be? Do you put them through some kind of a testing or evaluation process? We don't.

Julie Bauke:

We're just really good at pulling it out of you. Now we'll say to people do you have any test results? Like, have you done Myers-Briggs? Have you done strengths? Have you done the Harrison? Have you done the Berkman? You know, have you done? Let us look at them. You know, let's look at them together. But there is the thing about this process is there is no magic answer to any of this, and so when people are really asked the right questions and they're at all self-aware, the answer is there.

Julie Bauke:

But one of the things you mentioned I don't want to lose this you mentioned something about changing industries, and I think here's one of the things that happens is, I've been in the insurance industry for 30 years but I don't want to be anymore. But I only know insurance. Like, okay, let's separate out your skills from your knowledge. Okay, so, yes, you know the insurance industry Great, that piece may not be usable anymore, but your skills, in other words, what can you do? What do you know? What have you developed while working in the insurance industry? In almost 100% of the cases, your skill set.

Julie Bauke:

You have to separate out what you did from where you did it. The things that you've learned are transferable the phrase transferable skills. You have transferable skills, and so you have to find, and if you are really let's just take an example If you're really good at project management, you really have a real proclivity for understanding technology. So let's say, just those two things. But you've only ever done it in the insurance industry. I guarantee you that those two skill sets, pulled out from where you did it, are going to be very attractive to maybe a logistics company, a manufacturing company, a bank. So you have to separate yourself out. It's the nouns which is where you did it, the verbs are what you did, okay. And so you have to get comfortable identifying and marketing yourself based on what you did and what your accomplishments are, so that other organizations be like I need that, we need you here. They don't care. You did it at an insurance agency or an insurance company. So it's that separating it out, yeah that's what happened with me.

Michele Folan:

You all kind of helped me divide that, and so I did make a huge shift to another industry and the people process, that whole people management thing. That's all very consistent. Really, no matter where you go, it's just learning the nuances of a new industry and so I just yeah yeah, that's the easy stuff to learn.

Julie Bauke:

If you bring somebody in with skills, they can learn the nouns because they're bringing the verbs with them. Yeah, that's the easy stuff, you know. If you bring somebody in from another insurance company, they might not have great skills. Yeah, you know. So which would you rather?

Michele Folan:

have if you were hiring. I was thinking about this and I know you work with a lot of big corporations and so you're seeing people in the workforce that are very young and you're seeing you know women our age in the workforce that are very young and you're seeing you know women our age in the workforce. And because a lot of my listeners have daughters that are probably 20s, 30s and in the workforce, what are you seeing most often right now with women in the workforce that you would like to change, like to change?

Julie Bauke:

Okay, you know I always say I would love to be able to take what I learned by working for the last 40 years and inject it or put it in pill form and give it to these 20-something young women. What I'm seeing, especially with younger women first of all, sadly, michelle, they're still dealing with some of the crap we dealt with Sexual harassment. Some of those sort of things are still being mansplained to. It is still, in a lot of ways, in corporate America, a man's world, and so they are still struggling with that. What I love about this generation, though, is that they are much more willing to speak up, to look for solutions, and what they're missing is mentorship.

Julie Bauke:

What they're missing is what I'm finding is women in their twenties and thirties are desperate to glean the wisdom that older women have and not everybody, because you know, we all are subject to the okay, boomer stuff, you know, but the wisdom that we have gleaned in the last decades is something that I just wish we could go back, because you get to a certain age where you just don't give a darn anymore and you're just like I'm going to say what I think. You know. I wish we could find a way to reach back and give all of that to these younger women, because they want mentors. They don't know how to handle being sexually harassed, they don't and they don't trust human resources, which I came from human resources, I get it.

Julie Bauke:

Hr works for the company, and so what they're missing, and what I think all women are missing, is this true understanding of what your value is, what you do bring to whatever party you show up at, and then truly valuing that and then leveraging that to get what you want. And that is something unfortunately we just to get what you want, and that is something unfortunately we just some of us never learn it. Some of us learn it, but it takes a long time, and so if I could make a little pill that has that has anything in it, it would be the ability to understand, embrace, express and leverage your value, which is your power. Your power comes from your value. If I could just come up with that and just drop it into people's head or young women's head or inject it, look out, because it's just something you learn when you're almost too old to take advantage of it fully, yeah, oh God.

Michele Folan:

I'm nodding Because, oh my gosh, if I knew then what I know now. Yep, there were so many situations where, if I had bigger kahunis, I could have really changed the trajectory of some situations in my career, and so I want that for my daughters, right, yeah, yeah. So how do we?

Julie Bauke:

start? How do we start? Yeah, so how do we start? How do we start? I think mentorship, I think intergenerational relationships and friendships are critical, and they want that too. My social media person is 27. She has all of her friends following me and they're're all, like man, wish I could talk to her. Can she come talk to us? I really ask her this, ask her this, and so we're trying to figure out ways to actually get that wisdom that we've collected into the younger generation, because they are more fearless than we are. They're fearless. They do, in some ways, understand their value better than we do. We are in a more inclusive world. But then how do you take action on that? You can know it, but you have to take action on it and begin to leverage that to get what you want, which, oh, by the way, you also have to know what you want, which is another tricky question.

Michele Folan:

Yeah, so anyone listening who has daughters in their 20s and 30s, this is definitely something that if you can coach them and mentor them to get that mentorship, or if there's a family friend who is well-respected in business, then that you can pair them up. I just think there's so much value in that and making those connections for our young people.

Julie Bauke:

There is but you've got to be. One of the mistakes I see people make when it comes to mentoring is I've had people say to me can you mentor me? And my first response is whoa, what does that mean? What do I have to do? How much time is it going to take?

Julie Bauke:

But if you're specific in your ask, so let's say that you're a woman in corporate America and you're getting started in your career and you see that anybody it could be a woman or a man are just killer at running meetings On time. Things get done. Everybody knows what to do when they leave and they end on time. You're like man. You could say to that person you know so-and-so. I really. Here's what I see. First of all, they're going to be so flattered that you're mentioning it. Here's what I see. You are so good at running meetings. Could I buy you a cup of coffee and just get some ideas about how you develop that skillset, because I'd really like to be as good as you are at it someday. That's a doable. That's a yes. Can you mentor me for the rest of my career? That's a no.

Michele Folan:

Yeah, please, god, no you know for an ask.

Julie Bauke:

Be specific about your ask, because when people come to me and say so-and-so said I should talk to you, I don't know what to do with the rest of my life.

Michele Folan:

Do you? Realize what you just asked me that is such a tall order. It is no, we can't solve that with coffee at Starbucks.

Julie Bauke:

No, I wish we could Again that pill, that injection. We need to be less Botox and more injections of wisdom. Yeah exactly.

Michele Folan:

It's funny because my daughter I have two daughters and the older one texted me last night. She said can we talk at 7 am tomorrow morning? I need some help with a work situation. I'm going, let's just talk now. I just can't think about this. You know all night what is this and we came to a solution for her to approach this, but not all. I mean.

Julie Bauke:

I hope you were flattered by that request.

Michele Folan:

Oh, and I am.

Julie Bauke:

It means that this person sees you as a wise okay, I hate the word a wise elder, well, yeah whatever.

Michele Folan:

Elder, yeah, but a lot of people don't have that sounding board, and so I think you know it's good to find your person, that you can pick their brain every once in a while and you know it's interesting, I know that this is such.

Julie Bauke:

This is an area where everybody struggles. So when I do like radio, like, there's always a producer that'll talk to me beforehand. Hey, you know, hang on, blah, blah, blah. After I've been on a few times they'll say, hey, do you have a minute to answer a question? And they, you know, and they have a career question for me. And so everybody struggles with this and it's, you know, how do you? And it's hard. This is why two thirds or more people, consistently that number is consistent are disengaged and unhappy at work. They don't have anybody to bounce things off of, and so they get stuck. They get stuck between their ears, yeah, and that's just kind of a dark place to be when you're not happy.

Michele Folan:

So I do have a question, because this was always tough for me. Can we talk about salary negotiations? Sure, what guidance can you provide there?

Julie Bauke:

When you are going to go in and ask okay, two things. Let's say you're getting ready to start a new job and so you're in the offer stage. We talk about and we hear about the wage gap, and part of the reason for the wage gap part of it is that women are really unlikely much less likely than men to negotiate on their starting salary, and so you could very well find yourself sitting next to Bob over here. You're doing exactly the same things, but Bob is making $5,000 more than you, and you had the same experience because Bob asked for more money. Hr people will tell you there is room to negotiate almost every time, but women leave it on the table, and so companies aren't going to come back and go. You know, ask for more, there's more. They're going to consider that a win if they got you for 5,000 less than they got Bob for. Should it be that way? Of course not, but it is. And so there's when you're starting a job. Understand what are the market rates, what are competitors paying, and don't go by. Well, I was making 70 and now they're going to give me a 5% increase. I think that's fair. Don't use your last salary as the benchmark. Use what the market is paying as a benchmark. And then there's the other, where you're at work. I have a story here. If you're at work and you look around, you look at the market, you happen to find out what other people are making. You see what maybe even new positions at your company are paying for what you're doing. You arm yourself with information.

Julie Bauke:

One of the biggest mistakes people make when they ask for a raise is they tie it to their personal needs. My rent went up. I need a raise. It's not my problem, right? So you have to tie. That's not a good reason. It's a good reason for you, but it's not compelling. Anytime you ask for a raise, you need to make a business case so that it makes sense to the company. So you do that two things by understanding what the market's paying and if you've had recruiters or people contact, you share that and then show your value. Here's what I've done in the last year.

Julie Bauke:

If you are a subpar performer, you have no standing to ask for an increase. Sorry, you're not going to get it. But if you are a good, very good, above average performer who's valuable to the company and you can show how what you do adds value to the company and you're armed with market data. It increases your chances of getting a raise. But it also says I'm paying attention. I'm paying attention, I may be attractive to other companies, but if you're a heads down, company loyal person, you're going to get screwed. I hate to tell you. This is such great advice.

Julie Bauke:

So let me tell you this story real quick, because I think this is I got a story for you too. Okay, story time. Okay, I think this story is very telling. A young woman I know, who's about 30, was working at a financial planning firm and she was woefully underpaid to market and she was the glue that held the organization together and she gathered her market data. She went in and asked for what was fair given her role, and they came back with some mealy mouth response. So she tried again. They're like you're just money hungry.

Michele Folan:

Really.

Julie Bauke:

You know, and she was like and so organizations will use those sorts of things to make you feel like you're wrong for asking. So I said to her get out of there. Get out of there. And she did. Oh good, she went back and she's like okay, all right, if you think I'm money hungry for asking to be paid, commence her with my value. And oh, by the way, I know what my value is and you've already told me what my value is and I'm showing you there's a $20,000 differential here. Then this is not a situation in which we can come to a mutually beneficial conclusion, and so, bye-bye, they're a loss, absolutely. You've got to have that strength, but you have to operate from a place of knowledge and you always have to be ready. I say be ready to stay, be ready to go, have your data.

Michele Folan:

Gotta have your data. You know, this happened to me back in like 1989, 1990, somewhere early 90s, and I got wind that our raises were not consistent based on whether or not we were a guy or a female, whether or not we were a guy or a female, and that what I heard was oh well, he's married and his wife stays home.

Julie Bauke:

Oh yeah, oh, that makes me crazy and oh.

Michele Folan:

But you know you're married, you know your husband works too, so you don't need as much. Yep, that was a real thing back then.

Julie Bauke:

Yep, it was, it sure was, and I think it still is, but it's probably more of an underground conversation. Okay, yeah, but yeah, absolutely, that is irrelevant. It's irrelevant, should be. It's not up to right. I mean, the guy with the wife that stays at home might also have a multimillion dollar inheritance. I mean, you can't. You can't make decisions based on your perception of people's personal needs. You just can't, yeah.

Michele Folan:

That was just terrible. I would love for you to share a client success story, you know.

Julie Bauke:

I was. Let me tell you why I was so. I you know I was thinking about this recently. So we had a client who was in marketing and she had a side business where she made jewelry and it was going really well. She had her, she had her supply chain figured out, there was demand and she it was a hobby that turned into a full-time career. But she was in that space where she was afraid to make the leap and she was afraid to say I'm going to give all this up.

Julie Bauke:

And so we went through this process of okay, you have a second income, you already have success and interest in your jewelry, you already have this, you already have that. Okay, so you have a bucket over here that's full with your regular job, and then you have this little bucket that you're trying to fill because you'd like to do this full time. What's it going to take for you to switch, to take all of your energy? If you believe and the market's telling you that there is a need for that, there is a demand for what you're producing, then it really is ripping the bandaid off, the hairy arm and jumping in. And we will always say what's the worst thing that could happen? Well, my family? If I don't get the jewelry business up and running in a month, my family's going to be living in a van. Okay, that's bad.

Michele Folan:

That's bad.

Julie Bauke:

We don't want that. No, we don't. That's bad. We don't want that. No, we don't. So what can we do to strengthen your confidence that this jewelry business is going to take off? And both are one of our other coaches and I looked at her. We're like dude, do this, Do this. We're here telling you, as professionals, you're ready to do this. And so she did, and she's crazy successful. I mean, she has expanded her line. She is just wildly successful. So it was that moment where. So you have to look at where am I, where am I trying to go? And then what you know, what is it around me, what are the unknowns, what are the knowns and what is the worst thing that can happen. And if you can live with the worst thing that could happen, then do it. And, Michele, I'd also argue that you're a success story.

Michele Folan:

Well, I did something similar, right, didn't you? Yeah, I did, and it was scary as hell.

Julie Bauke:

Yes, but now, as you look back, when you look back at that moment, when you made that decision, how do you look back upon it now, like, how do?

Michele Folan:

you view it now. I wish I hadn't been so tentative and nervous, because it was a year ago that I resigned from my full-time corporate job and I almost threw up as I was calling my boss. You know who I think was surprised, but it was, you know, it wasn't terrible, right, and I've told other people this story. But three days after I resigned I went and went to a psychic. Oh yeah, and I walked in and he's like whoa, whoa, what is going on with you? I'd never met this person before. And he totally picked up on my vibe, my nervous vibe, right, that stress up to the ceiling kind of thing, and so, but yeah, and in hindsight it you know, now that I've been doing this almost a year, it's coming up, it'll be a year end of February. Yeah, it's. Yeah, it frees your soul once you give yourself the opportunity to step out of your comfort zone, and that's exactly what I did.

Julie Bauke:

And what another. I think when we go through that calculation, another thing we forget. What we're doing is we're comparing what we have to what we want, okay, and sometimes we imbue what we have with all these wonderful characteristics like I'm never going to, you know I, I'm never going to lose this job. We believe this whole employer-employee loyalty thing. We are pledging our loyalty, in that case, to a job in an organization that would let us go tomorrow if they thought they could live without us. And so to stay in what feels safe isn't really safe. It just isn't safe. I mean, we like to think it is, we tell ourselves. It is, in our experience, getting people to really understand that you have to be in charge of your career. And here's what that looks like. My question is always if you came into work tomorrow and they said we don't need you anymore, are you ready? Are you ready to go pursue something else Because your company wants you? Until the day they don't and in our experience it takes people to be laid off twice before they truly believe that there's no such thing as loyalty. And there never was, there never was. So this employee-employer loyalty is gone crap, it never was, there was. You know companies didn't do major layoffs until the 90s. Before that they would just keep you in a corner and just, but they weren't letting, they never let people go. Then, as soon as it became acceptable to have big, broad-scale layoffs, you know they did it and it's never going back.

Julie Bauke:

Look at 2008. Then look what happened in 20 during COVID. There was all this crazy hiring. The pendulum is doing this. It's swinging back and forth between. It's an employer's market, it's an employee's market. It swings back and forth with the economy, with demographics, with all kinds of things. And the only way to really be in charge of your career is always have your next step in mind, always be ready to stay, be ready to go and to be ready to go, you've got to have your LinkedIn profile up to date. You have to have your resume always up to date. You have to be networking at least once or twice a month with different people. You can't bury your head and give all of your attention to your job, because that is just a loser's game, because they would live without you tomorrow if they could.

Michele Folan:

I love the advice about networking. Just always kind of keeping your hand in things, kind of knowing what's going on out there. That's fantastic advice. I love that.

Julie Bauke:

Oh yeah, I mean it is, it's so, you know. I think everybody hears that and goes, oh yeah, yeah, I need to do that, but they don't do it and then they're on here. I mean, I've seen, because I worked for nine years with people who just lost their jobs like in that few days, alcohol outplacement in a few days and I never thought this would happen to me. I don't know how they're going to live without me. I mean, yeah, they laid off everybody else, but I thought I was safe. We get in this place where we believe we are irreplaceable, and I think 2008 taught people that companies are cutting both muscle and bone. They're not cutting fat anymore, both muscle and bone.

Julie Bauke:

They're not cutting fat anymore because it was so bad in 2008. So I don't know what 2025 is going to bring, and the only thing you can do is make sure you have make sure you've got all of your tools ready to act and that you give some thought every once in a while. What would I do if this all went away tomorrow? What would I do? Yep and I got caught.

Michele Folan:

Yeah, but I forget. Yeah, it was 2020 when I got caught and I was like whoa, but yeah, but the pandemic bought me some time and I'm actually very grateful for that.

Julie Bauke:

When you look in the rear view mirror, it always makes sense, yeah.

Michele Folan:

Oh yes, it does. It does, and I always say it was a gift honestly just, and I'll leave it at that, okay, what services do you offer?

Julie Bauke:

Julie, one of the things that you know, as we come into 2025, most of my focus as a part of our team is on women. I am creating some fantastic content for women. I speak at women's groups, whether intact inside of companies or outside professional associations. I love to speak about career happiness, so I do speaking. I also do webinars and other programs other online programs around a whole suite of career happiness so I do speaking. I also do webinars and other programs other online programs around a whole suite of career topics. That's what I love. We also do one-on-one coaching. You can follow me on Instagram or TikTok. My name is Julie on the job. You can connect with me on LinkedIn.

Julie Bauke:

But what I'm really focusing on this year is giving women the tools and the inspiration and the kick in the seat of the pants to get more focused and more thoughtful around what their possibilities are and understand their values. So we can do that in. I'm doing I've done coursework for women inside organizations also their ERGs, their employee resource groups and I'm really looking to ramp that up in 2025, because that's really what I love to do is getting whole groups of people, of women, to say yes, we can do this together. So that's what we do. We help you figure out. And then I have other people on my team who help you, you know, through one-on-one coaching, to help you figure out. You know, hit, figure out. What is your, what, what should you put, be putting into Google Maps, and how do you figure that out? And then how do you put together a plan to get there? So, yeah, that's what we do. We're about career happiness period, end of story. I think we all deserve it, yeah.

Michele Folan:

Yes, and Julie and her team helped me and I'm forever grateful for that.

Julie Bauke:

I do. Look at you, look at you, girl. Look at you, out there doing big things. It's in all of us what you've done, michelle, it's in all of us. It just looks different than what you're doing, right, but doing something bigger and better, at least better as defined by what we want. It's not necessarily climbing a ladder anymore. It's about figuring out which rung you want to sit on, and then sometimes building a rung if you don't see one there.

Michele Folan:

Yeah, oh, you're just full of great little words of wisdom. Today, julie, I want to ask you a personal question. What is one of your core pillars of self-care? What's something that you do for yourself? That's a non-negotiable. I take naps, woman, after my own heart.

Julie Bauke:

So you know I was thinking about this. I naps Woman after my own heart. So you know I was thinking about this. I'm like, why do I like naps? So I started thinking about my family, my family of origin, you know, my biological family. We were like nappers, like it would not, it would not surprise anybody in my family to look over and see somebody asleep on Christmas day in the lounge chair.

Julie Bauke:

So I am, so I'm so committed to naps, and it might just be 20, 30 minutes, it might be an hour if I need it. I let my body tell me what it needs and I also get that. I'm in a stage of life where that's more doable than it is for some people. But for me I used to feel really guilty taking a nap in the middle of the day. I'm like hell with that. That comes again with that age sort of thing, you know. And for me too, now that I'm I'm you know, at I'm older, I love waking up with an alarm clock. I don't it doesn't mean I get up at noon and get up probably the same time most people, but I love those are my little freedoms that make me feel like I'm indulging myself and really give me what I need and not apologize for it. And we there are people who can't nap.

Julie Bauke:

Okay, what is it that you need? Is it a walk around the block? You know what is it? You need to keep yourself where you need to go, and I just think women are. So you know when I would. Anytime I read the obituary, especially of a much older woman on, like I read an obituary. She was selfless, she put everybody ahead of herself. I'm like sorry, that's not the flex you think it is. That's not good. I'm sorry. Don't put everybody else ahead of yourself. What is wrong with you?

Michele Folan:

That's exactly what I try to tell my clients you have to put yourself first, because if you don't, you're not going to be capable of enjoying all those wonderful moments ahead that you have coming with your wonderful family and your children. It's like, yeah.

Julie Bauke:

So the word selfish is such a trigger word for me because I think we use it as a weapon with women. Well, not having kids, that's so selfish, oh really.

Julie Bauke:

Self-ish. I'm taking care of myself. It's my life. You don't get. You don't get input, and I think that's once you start to embrace that and that's going to be part of that pill I put in younger women Once you start to embrace that, I think that's when real freedom starts and you can do it. You can get little snaps of that as you go through life, as you get older.

Julie Bauke:

Do not apologize for taking care of yourself. I don't care if it's your husband, your boyfriend, your mom, your kids, anybody. I used to tell my kids, because I always worked. When they were growing up, I said here's the deal You're my number one priority, but you're not my only priority. And so you know me dropping everything every minute that you need me, me just sitting there waiting for you to need me is not going to happen. Minute that you need me, me just sitting there waiting for you to need me is not going to happen.

Julie Bauke:

Plus, I also think, because I had boys, it was a really bad lesson to teach them that women are here to serve you, and so for me it was always like I'm raising someone's husband and someone's father potentially here, and I want them to love me for that. I want them to appreciate the job I did raising these boys. And so for women, I think that's just can be really a challenge, because we've just bought into this. We have to be everything and do everything, and even taking an hour to go to yoga and having your watch your husband agree to babysit the kids how triggering is that whole statement. You know really, they're your kids too, and I think younger women are realizing that they're like yeah, I'm not sure.

Julie Bauke:

If I can't have a guy who's going to be a real partner, I'm not sure that's for me.

Michele Folan:

Yeah, maybe that's something that the Gen Xers are going to do better than we did, too.

Julie Bauke:

I think they are. I think they are. Women are kind of you know it's. It's unfortunately the unintended consequences. This is a lot of men are following Andrew Tate and a lot of these men that tell them you know you deserve a 10 out of 10 and any woman who doesn't want you is a bitch, and you know, I mean it's just men aren't a lot of, especially men aren't responding to that well, unfortunately. But I love how women are showing up for themselves and in their own power.

Michele Folan:

Yeah, Fantastic Julie. What is the name of your website so people can find you?

Julie Bauke:

TheBauke and it's B-A-U-K-E TheBaukeGroupcom. You can also connect with me on LinkedIn and just tell me you heard me on Michelle's podcast. I'd be happy to connect. And if you are in charge of your internal women's group or you're a member of a professional association that has a conference coming out, I have a lot of great career topics that a lot of them focus on women, but most of them are gender agnostic and profession and industry agnostic too. It's really about the process of career happiness and everything that goes into that. Fantastic, Julie Bauke, it was great catching up.

Michele Folan:

You too, Keep going forward and being awesome girl, Thank you. Thanks for being here today. Hey, thanks for tuning in. Please rate and review the show where you listen to the podcast. And did you know that Asking for a Friend is available now to listen on YouTube? You can subscribe to the podcast there as well. Your support is appreciated and it helps others find the show. Thank you.