Ep.81 Womaness Co-founder Talks Skincare and Wellness Down There - You Deserve to Feel and Look Great at Any Age

By 2030 the world population of menopausal and postmenopausal women is projected to increase to 1.2 billion, with 47 million new entrants each year, but according to a recent Forbes survey, a staggering 73% of women don't treat their menopause symptoms.  

What about vaginal dryness, hot flashes, sleep disruptions, and skin changes?  Are we really putting up with this stuff?  There are some amazing women-led companies out there who are forging a path to normalizing the conversation and education around menopause symptoms. 

It's one thing to be a female entrepreneur, but when you take that boldness and bravery and combine it with a passion for women's sexual wellness, menopause, and beauty, you get this week's guest.

Michelle Jacobs is the co-founder and COO of the company Womaness, which has developed effective, science-based, and elegant products to support women from their heads to their toes.  She believes that we deserve to feel and look great at any age.

In this episode Michelle and I discuss:
- The genesis of Womaness and the process to secure capital
- The science-backed research and market analysis needed to curate the product line
- Womaness' best sellers and why customers love them
- The personal impact of being a female founder 

You can follow Michelle Jacobs and Womaness at:
https://www.instagram.com/michelle_jacobs_womaness/
https://womaness.com/
https://www.instagram.com/mywomaness/
https://www.facebook.com/mywomaness

I'd love to work with you! Let me help you reach your health and fitness goals.
https://www.fasterwaycoach.com/?aid=MicheleFolan

Have questions about Faster Way? Feel free to reach out.
mfolanfasterway@gmail.com

Follow Asking for a Friend on Social media outlets:
https://www.instagram.com/askingforafriend_pod/
https://www.facebook.com/askforafriendpod/

Please provide a review and share. This helps us grow!
https://lovethepodcast.com/AFAF

This podcast is for general informational purposes only and does not constitute the practice of medicine, nursing, or other professional healthcare services, including the giving of medical advice. The content of this podcast is not intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. Users should not disregard or delay in obtaining medical advice for any medical condition they may have and should seek the assistance of their healthcare professionals for any such conditions.

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:00

I just love it when we get to talk about skin care and sexual wellness with an amazing female entrepreneur. They know the data and the fact that this demographic has been largely overlooked. Did you know? By 2030, the world population of menopausal and postmenopausal women is projected to increase to 1.2 billion, with 47 million new entrants each year? I mean that's amazing, but a staggering 73% of women don't treat their menopause symptoms, and this is according to a recent Forbes survey. But what about vaginal dryness, hot flashes, you have sleep disruptions and, of course, skin changes. Are we really putting up with this? There are some amazing women-led companies out there who are forging a path to normalizing the conversation and education. I will say this there are some generational differences in how we approach our sexual health and skin care. Our younger peers are way more proactive in seeking solutions to the aging process.

Speaker 1: 1:12

Ladies, this is your permission slip to not tolerate the status quo Health, wellness, fitness, relationships and everything in between. We're removing the taboo from what really matters in midlife. I'm your host, michelle Fohlen, and this is asking for a friend. I am so fortunate to continue to meet amazing women doing great things in this stage of life. It's one thing to be a female entrepreneur, but when you take that boldness and bravery and combine it with a passion for women's sexual health, menopause and beauty, you get. Today's guest, michelle Jacobs, is the co-founder and COO of the company Woman S, which has launched some amazing, effective and elegant products to support women from their heads to their toes. Michelle believes that you deserve to feel and look great as we venture into midlife. Welcome to asking for a friend, michelle Jacobs. Thank you very much.

Speaker 2: 2:30

Michelle. It's good to be here.

Speaker 1: 2:33

Well, and it's so good to see you again. I would like to tell the audience how we met. We were both doing a panel discussion at the Kroger Wellness Fest and after I got to meet Michelle, I said, oh my gosh, a perfect guest for this audience.

Speaker 2: 2:52

So thank you so much for being here and a perfect podcast because I love the name and it is so true. Everyone is asking me for a friend.

Speaker 1: 3:01

I get calls texts all the time. Hey, I'm getting ready to go to my GYN. What questions should I ask? I love that and I love that women are willing to talk about this. Be open. I've done a couple panel discussions here recently where we could have gone till 10 o'clock just with Q&A, because women really do want to know all the stuff and we're getting more bold and happy to ask those questions, so it's really good. Hey, before we get started, I'd love for you to tell the audience a little bit about you, not just where you're from, but where you went to school and family and then your career history, because that always, I think, is impactful to know when you came from.

Speaker 2: 3:54

It is always interesting to hear how people ended up where they are and what trajectory they took. But I'm from New York. From Long Island, new York, I went to Colgate University, which is a small liberal arts college here in New York, and from there, wow, I spent a few years doing digital marketing in New York. I worked for a company called Avenue A Razor Fish, which was a pretty big agency. At the time. We were one of the first to do internet advertising. I'm 51, so this was in my 20s, so it was in the 90s I would say 80s, 90s. My clients were Lancome Ralph Lauren. I sat in a meeting with the family of Ralph Lauren and explained to them how the internet worked and why they should spend money on advertising on the internet.

Speaker 1: 4:43

Oh, wow.

Speaker 2: 4:44

That was my claim to fame back a long time ago. I did that for a few years and then I went to business school. I went to NYU. So I spent a lot of fun A lot of universities in New York when she worked at Pfizer Consumer Healthcare. So I worked on the centrum business Advil really, really learned about how to run a business, how to run a P&L product development. I mean I learned so much in those years of like corporate consumer package goods. But then I got really like my dream job from there. I worked at Real Simple Magazine. I was actually recruited over there because they were beginning a product line around Real Simple magazine, the media company, and I was brought on to develop the products associated with Real Simple. So I loved that brand, I loved that job. I was there for 10 years. I actually launched products at Target and then we moved it to Bed Bath Beyond and we expanded into food and bedding. I mean we had 14,000 products under the Real Simple name by the time I was done. Oh, I had no idea. Yeah, it was huge. And so I was there for 10 years and then eventually moved to Home Shopping Network Again, a little bit interesting there's for those who know Home Shopping Network, there's a brand named Joy Mangano and she's very popular on HSN and there was a movie made about her life, joy I don't know if you remember the Miracle Mop Woman, yes, with Jennifer Lawrence and Robert De Niro.

Speaker 2: 6:12

So this movie was coming out about her life and her brand was exploding and she didn't really. She had to manage all that growth so I was brought in to help her launch it. All these different retailers and that was sort of where I was. Joy was thinking about retiring and at that time my friend, sally, who we had been friends for 20 years, was telling me about her health issues, and she was telling me about issues that she was having. She found herself at a doctor's office and found out that all of these symptoms she was having were related to menopause. And she was like I don't have hot flashes, I'm not in menopause. And the doctor was like no, there's all these symptoms. And that was really the catalyst that got us talking about starting Woman S, which was this product line associated with perimenopause and menopause.

Speaker 1: 7:01

All right, so you had the initial conversation, yeah, which I think is so funny. It's like the conversation that you write and stuff down on the napkin over a glass of wine or whatever. How long did it take from that conversation to actually launching the company?

Speaker 2: 7:21

Wow, I'm thinking back. It took about two and a half years, I would say. She first started talking about it. She ended up getting a list of products to go look at on Amazon. That's what her doctor said she should do and that was. We were like laughing on the phone, I guess we were on the phone back then we were saying, you know, she's like I'll never buy these products.

Speaker 2: 7:40

These are products my mother used, or like my grandmother used, and both of us had had a careers building women's lifestyle brands. She worked at Target for 25 years, also worked on women's, lots of women's brands and these products that we were finding in the market were not clean. They weren't it's like good ingredients. They didn't have good information and, worse, like they felt really sterile. So one of the first things we did was a whole series of research with all kinds of women across the country and we found that so many women were hungry for information they had no idea what was changing about their body and really looking for better product. That was right for them, better clinical data, modern.

Speaker 2: 8:24

We realized there was an opportunity. It probably took about a year for us to kind of come up with. All right, this is really an opportunity. Here's kind of the products we would pull together and then in the next year we really started developing the product line, like working with formulators, working with manufacturers, and I will say we had a meeting with Target in February of 2020. And then March of 2020 was.

Speaker 1: 8:49

COVID.

Speaker 2: 8:50

Great timing. So I spent about another year and a half sitting right in the seat looking at a Zoom screen, and that's when we started to raise money and really finish the brand identity of what womaness was going to become.

Speaker 1: 9:05

Okay, there's so much to unpack here because you have to go to investors. How far along in the development process do you have to be to be able to secure capital?

Speaker 2: 9:18

Oh well, I will say it's changed a lot, even since 2020, when we were really raising money. It was easier in 2020 than it is today. You could secure capital pre-revenue is what they call it. You know where. It's just an idea, but they believe in your idea. So we were able to secure capital pre-revenue, but we had had a commitment from Target. In our conversations with Target, they wrote back to us and we asked them to please put it in writing that they were interested in our brand, they were interested in this category, and that they anticipated writing a PO eventually a purchase order in order to launch a Target.

Speaker 2: 9:57

Once we had that, we were really able to go and pitch investors and said we needed money in order to launch a Target. We needed money in order to build to this. That was really for us, what helped. I mean, today it's so much harder, just with the economy the way it is, with the interest rates the way they are. So now you need to I would almost say like make the idea actually come along a little bit and you need to have some revenue. You need to have some proof that this was a real idea before you can really lock in capital. It's really tricky right now.

Speaker 1: 10:30

Did Target want any kind of exclusivity at first? No, they didn't.

Speaker 2: 10:37

Oh okay, they did not want exclusivity. At the time we did kind of float the idea. We didn't really want to go there exclusively. We really believed in this and really thought we would have other opportunities. But they did not ask us for exclusivity.

Speaker 1: 10:50

My other question is because I want to talk about your products. But how did you decide you were going to do sexual health and you were going to do also skincare and beauty?

Speaker 2: 11:03

That was a big question. Well, at first it wasn't a question, because when we spoke and we did focus groups with women, almost every woman we spoke to said it's not just my skin, it's my libido, it's vaginal dryness, I'm having night sweats, I'm having my hair is changing, my nails are changing. So there was not one woman we spoke to that was only one problem or one situation. They had multiple things going on. So we felt right away that we really wanted to create a what we call head to toe and everything in between solution, because the way we were thinking about it was it's the woman's whole body, it's your whole body, and the reason you're having dry skin is because your estrogen is going down, which is why you have vaginal dryness, which is also why you're having hot flashes. So it made sense that when a woman was standing in front of a series of products, she said oh, I need something for my skin, I need a lubricant and I need a good supplement. So it made sense to us.

Speaker 2: 12:08

I will say investors definitely were skeptical at first, and they were because they are not used to seeing that they want one category. You are either in this or you're in that. It was an uphill battle to convince people that no, this had to be a full solution, and also with retailers. Retailers are organized. If you think of how you shop, skincare, supplement, sexual wellness are all in different places. It's been really an interesting, challenging slash opportunity to say you really need to think about this as one issue for a woman and she's shopping this. This is a category for her.

Speaker 1: 12:45

Okay, my light bulb went off. Your friend, your co-founder. She had difficulty getting her doctor to really hone in on her issues and provide solutions because doctors haven't really been trained thoroughly in menopause. It's getting better, but it just hasn't. Back then it wasn't a thing, it's an elective in medical school. Now you're trying to convince retailers when the doctors aren't even on board yet. Yes, right, you talk about you said uphill battle and you're I mean there's like what 45 symptoms of perimenopause and menopause. And yeah, I can imagine this was not an easy, easy challenge, but your market research was telling you that it's an umbrella of problems.

Speaker 2: 13:40

You put it like that, I'm like what were we thinking? You're crazy. But it felt so clear to us it just felt like of course this has to exist and of course everybody will understand it as we're talking about it Sometimes yes, then sometimes absolutely not. I think it's been harder than we had thought, not so much on our individual customers but from the larger institution kind of point of view, From the retailers, from the investors. It's harder for them to wrap their head around this because it is a new idea. I can't believe I'm saying that, but it is a new idea. But it does make sense from a customer standpoint, how she's shopping.

Speaker 2: 14:22

The other thing that's sort of happening in the culture is that millennials are aging into perimenopause starts in your 40s, early 40s, late 40s. So more millennials are in this category now and these are the same women that pushed for more support during pregnancy and motherhood, more support for IVF, endometriosis, acknowledgment of miscarriages. So much has come from this generation of women who's really pushed for better women's health in general. And now they're in perimenopause and they're asking the same questions why are there no products? Why does my doctor not know about this? Where can I go? Why want a modern solution, so it's forcing the conversation. Well, Gen X women and I'm a Gen X woman are still whispering about it and are embarrassed about it, and so I think that the culture is also changing, and that's been part of my argument. When we talk to retailers and when you say to retailers millennials, who you've been chasing, are now thinking about this, it's helped crack the door open.

Speaker 1: 15:25

Oh, I can see that for sure, and I am a baby boomer. I'm in the last year of the baby boomers born in 64. So we don't talk about it much either, but I think it's getting better. Michelle, I have to tell you I love the names. I love the names of your products. You have let's Neck Eyeopener Outdamspot. I mean this is just a name of you. You've got just great names. How much fun have you had on the creative side of this business.

Speaker 2: 15:58

You know it's interesting. You say that because sometimes I feel like you are fun names take away from the efficaciousness of the product, because what I really love and what I'm really proud of are the formulations of the product. We worked really hard to create products. That work period it wasn't. Do they smell good? Do they feel good? They have to work, they have to do the job of what we're trying to accomplish. I love the names of our products too, and Sally and I came up with them ourselves over Zoom. Like hey, what about this, what about that? Like it was really fun. But I do worry sometimes that it takes away from the amazingness of what we've created. Maybe that's just a personal concern of me of my own. Yes, I love the names of our products too.

Speaker 1: 16:44

Well, you know, though, it makes you stand out that was really my point was their eye catching. They make you stand out. You have competition. Yeah, there are other products out there in the industry, and of course, it's getting people to try them, and then you hook them in with efficacious formulas. Right, and after I met you in September, I went right to Ulta on my way home, by the way and I bought let's Neck, and I bought Overnight Magic, oh good, and I'm loving them both.

Speaker 1: 17:19

Oh, good Thank gosh, I have the turkey neck. I try not to wear turtlenecks all the time, like Nora Efron, but there are times when I'm doing a video. Yeah, I know, and I'm like oh, dear God and the overnight magic. I have super dry skin.

Speaker 2: 17:40

I love that product. It's my favorite.

Speaker 1: 17:43

My skin still feels dewy in the morning when I wake up, which hasn't happened in the past. Love it. And the other thing is the scent of your products are light and, I want to say, elegant, because they're not overpowering, and so great job, thank you, thank you. Now, I know I need to buy more of your stuff, but how did you come up with your signature scent?

Speaker 2: 18:09

Oh, wow, that's funny. We just kind of went out and said what do we love? You know, we found a few things that we really liked and said you know why did we like some other scents that we you know other products that we liked? We really wanted to make it almost to the point where you smell it when you put it on and then the smell disappears.

Speaker 2: 18:28

We didn't want people sitting with that scent, because I don't like that, and so it's really really light and felt like floral, a little citrusy, but it goes, it dissipates very quickly. So you kind of just have a good kind of energizing feeling when you're putting it on, but it doesn't give you a headache, because sometimes perfumes and things can be too much. So it's really really light, but really it's just. It was sort of trial by error. We gave some direction to our formulator. This is what we wanted to do, this is how heavy we want it to be or how light we want it to be, and she gave us a million and we narrowed it down and came up with one.

Speaker 1: 19:05

Yeah, it's great actually. I would love for you to talk a little bit about your products, some of your best sellers. What makes them special? Why are they doing so well?

Speaker 2: 19:18

Thank you. So in our skincare I won't go into too much detail because it could be it can get a little technical, so I have to stop myself. We really worked with amazing experts, formulators and doctors on like the three main categories we're in skincare, supplements and sexual wellness and spent a lot of time talking about what do they recommend for their patients, what are the major issues that are facing this population right now? So for skincare it was so much about hydration, moisturizing. We are not botox in a bottle. We've been around for a long time and we know that all these promises you make you get from all these lotions and potions like there's only so much it can really do for you. But what's so important for skin at this age is the moisturizing, the hydration and the overall protection from longer-term damage. So those were the types of ingredients we look to put into all of our formulations, in some cases also brightening and in some cases also like spot reduction, and there are ingredients out there that can help with that. So we really focused on great ingredients. We use it. Just to name a few, we use an ingredient called hyaclear seven, which is an advanced form of hyaluronic acid which I know a lot of people have heard of and that literally gets moisture into your molecules and holds onto that moisture for 24 hours and that's why it feels so good and you wake up with that sort of like do we feel? And that's in a lot of our products, including let's Neck. We also really focused on niacinamide and ingredients like that that help with spot reduction. Let's Neck in particular, which is our number one by far top-selling SKU the applicator itself is a roller ball and it has a stainless steel roller ball. Women will put it in the refrigerator and take it out of the refrigerator and you roll it on your neck in zecotay and it helps with instant tightening of those like fine lines, but also that hydration protection, decrease in spots, that kind of thing. But the actual act of rolling it on your skin helps massage your neck and kind of pulls out those muscles and helps strengthen and smooth out those lines. So overnight magic is our fate, overnight cream. Let's Neck is a great neck and zecotay. We also have Fountain of Glow, which is our vitamin C serum. I highly recommend that. It's an 8% vitamin C and a squalene which is like an olive oil feel but it dries dry on your skin. It's not oily. It's great. People love that as well. We have the works, which is our all over body cream, because your skin changes, all over your body. So those crepey skin that develops on your arms and your legs, yeah, love that. For skincare. Again, there's more, but those are sort of the highlights.

Speaker 2: 22:03

Our sexual wellness products. I mean nine out of 10 women I talked to we were talking about this at the beginning talked to me about sexual wellness issues, vaginal dryness, libido issues. So we have two vaginal moisturizers that again doing really great. We love them. One is coconut oil based, which is antimicrobial in its own property. I mean, it feels really good, like I don't know how else to describe it. Women say who have libido issues are like this sort of changed my life. It's amazing, oh gosh. Yes, yeah, as a massage oil, they use it on dry skin, but it is made for intimacy and it does really work. It's like 100% guarantee. That's great.

Speaker 2: 22:48

And then we also have a water based, which, again, it's a preference, which one you like better. The water based also can be used for intimacy, for vaginal dryness. You can use it all day. And we also have a vibrator because what happens is your vaginal wall thins and the muscles kind of atrophy, and actually there's medical reasons. You should use a vibrator or consider using a vibrator, because it helps strengthen those muscles and helps almost like queuing those kegel exercises.

Speaker 2: 23:16

And then for supplements we have metopause, which is our like powerhouse anchor If you have hot flashes, night sweats, brain fog. It only has three ingredients highly clinically studied, great reviews. I'm so proud of that because if you can't take a hormone replacement therapy, this is a really great alternative no estrogen, no soy, no hormones. We have a sleep product called Let Me Sleep with sustain release melatonin. It helps you fall asleep and stay asleep. So we really thought about you know what are the symptoms affecting this woman on a day to day basis. What are the best, most well tested ingredients out there that we can bring into our product line?

Speaker 1: 23:57

I noticed when I was at Ulta that they had all your products together.

Speaker 2: 24:02

Yes.

Speaker 1: 24:03

And that made a lot of sense to me. But do you ever have people say I don't know where to look In the store?

Speaker 2: 24:10

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 24:11

Well.

Speaker 2: 24:11

Ulta is great because Ulta has been an amazing partner. They do put our products all together. We're on what's called the wellness wall. It's like their health and wellness section. A lot of women don't think to go there, so I'm telling anyone that shops at Ulta check out the wellness wall because we're on there A target. We're on very few target stores at this point, but we were separated. So in that case, yes, a lot of women were like I can't find you, I can't find you in the store, or I found your skincare, I can't find your supplements, because they did put us in separate places and I think the brand does best when it's all together.

Speaker 1: 24:46

That makes sense. How has this experience of not just founding but leading a women focus company impacted you personally?

Speaker 2: 24:58

Oh my gosh, it has changed my life completely. I mean for many, many reasons. But one thing I find really interesting is, you know, when Sally and I started Woman Us, we really came at this from a business perspective. We were like, in business terms, there's a white space, it's a big market, very business school case study, this is going to work and this is how we're going to do it.

Speaker 2: 25:23

And then when we launched and we started to build our community and hearing from women whether it was women who could not find a doctor, who were really suffering or who were so embarrassed by what was happening to their bodies or could not find support, or they found our products and it changed their lives or it became a completely different experience from I'm starting a business to like this is a movement I'm advocating for these women and we're all in this together and this community feel of like how can we all help each other?

Speaker 2: 26:01

Or like, what can we learn from our community and how can I use that to further get our information out there to women that really need the help? And I think it's really changed me because I'm now, like, so passionate about just realizing how lacking women's health is. I mean, I am from New York, I have a lot of doctors here, I have a lot of places I could go, but that is not the same in other parts of the country, and really being a resource for women has become so important to the mission of this company.

Speaker 1: 26:35

I love your passion and I will tell you that gets you out of bed in the morning Just hearing those stories and I want to agree with you that you know, while access is pretty good where I live and where you live, there are a lot of women out there that are really struggling to find answers and the fact that now you can get appointments online, you can find great products like yours online. It's really opened up, not just the choices, but it's opened the conversation where I think that's healthy and much needed.

Speaker 2: 27:14

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 27:14

Like I said, I have people that do reach out to me quite often for suggestions for a doctor to see and I even get stumped. Now I'm like gosh, I'm not quite sure where I should refer you, but just knowing that we can go online and we can find answers, that's such a great help. I would love for you to tell the listeners where they can find your product. So I know Target. It's a little more limited in the store but Alta and then online, right.

Speaker 2: 27:42

We're at Ulta Beauty, amazon and on womanistcom. Okay, and then we have a great Instagram by womanist. But there's tons of blogs and information on our site. If you're looking for product or you're looking for information, we have so much. We interview experts, we interview doctors.

Speaker 1: 28:01

There's some really, really great information on our blog, and that's something else I do want to give you guys a shout out for is the level of education that you provide to people, because I did check out the website and I was really impressed with what you've got on there. You're not just pushing product, you really are reaching out to the broader community to provide information.

Speaker 2: 28:23

So I love that and we have covered topics that we don't even have products for with weight gain, hair, skin, net like things related to hair loss. A lot on HRT and option both prescription and non prescription options for women.

Speaker 1: 28:38

Well, and that brings up my next question what's new? Anything coming for the company or for you?

Speaker 2: 28:44

We were really excited that we're now in all doors at Ulta, so that's huge and we're always working. We're actually working on a few some very exciting things that'll be coming out in 2024 and 2025. So look back and check us out and if you sign up for our email, you'll definitely get early access to whatever's coming out. We're really excited. We just launched an amazing holiday gift, which are many travel sizes of some of our best-selling skincare, because we were getting complaints from women. They couldn't get through TSA with our products. So we made little minis of our top selling and that's part of our holiday gift.

Speaker 1: 29:22

Ooh, I like that. Yeah, oh, very good, michelle. I have started asking all of my guests what one of their most important pillars of self-care is.

Speaker 2: 29:35

Well, I think if you had asked me that a few months ago, I probably wouldn't have a good answer. But I have a good answer Because I went to an event recently and I heard someone speak about meditation. I'm like, yes, you know, not for me, not for me, but I was feeling so stressed out and so much just from my own work, my family life, the state of the world, and I actually have started to do meditation in the morning. I'm very good about working out, so I usually do it after at the gym, I sit in a corner and I've started to do.

Speaker 2: 30:12

It's called like a love and kindness practice, where you repeat in your head things that you're grateful for, things that you love, things you want to wish kindness to, and I'm up to about 10 minutes. I started at like one minute and I now probably will stay at around eight to 10 minutes and I really love it. I actually look forward to it because my brain, my days, are so intense that it's like 10 minutes where I actually clear my brain. It's not easy and it's really hard to do, but I'm actually I'm very dedicated to continuing that and continuing that into 2024. And I've become a little bit of an evangelist of it, because I would highly recommend people looking into figuring out a little bit of like a mindfulness, even if it's for a few minutes a day.

Speaker 1: 31:02

I love that you brought this up because you're obviously type A and you probably are a little bit of a cardio junkie. I bet you love cardio. That's like your release and my good friend Sandy. She's a breathwork expert and it took her a long time of many, many years of yoga to finally stay for the end of class. When is the quiet? I forget what you call it. It's Sri Vesana. I'm not a yogi, but she said it took her years to get comfortable in her own body, to be able to lie there still, and I think you're telling me is that you're starting to get comfortable being quiet with your thoughts. I'm learning.

Speaker 1: 31:51

I'm getting there, it takes time.

Speaker 2: 31:54

I am getting there. When I hear people say like you can work up to 30 minutes, like that terrifies me. But I'm getting there, I'm enjoying it much more than I thought I would. It's been very helpful to me to kind of find some calm in the chaos of the day.

Speaker 1: 32:10

Well, I think it's great. I think maybe I could use that at three in the morning. Maybe need to learn about meditation, you know.

Speaker 2: 32:17

But that's where it's supposed to help. If you can do it for the 10 minutes, then you can also use that. At three o'clock in the morning, when you wake up and you have a thousand things in your head, you might be able to clear them out faster. I don't know. I don't know if that's I'm working towards. Okay, I'll let you know if it happens.

Speaker 1: 32:35

All right, you let me know and then I will get on Google and I'll do some research myself. Okay, michelle, it was really great having you here. I'm so happy that I got to meet you in September and I would love it, when you launch these new products, if you come back and let's chat again. I would love that. Thank you so much for having me. Thanks, michelle, follow asking for a friend on social media outlets and provide a review and share this show wherever you get your podcasts. Reviews and sharing help us grow.