Ep.65 Why She Chose a Hangover-free Life

Allow me to introduce you to Jen Butler.  She is a self-proclaimed imperfectionist, who wanted to reach some of her own personal goals, but she knew deep down that her wine habit was going to hold her back from being successful.  

Removing alcohol is a courageous act of self-care, and she made the decision at the end of 2017 to hand sauvignon blanc a pink slip and started her sober journey.  Jen wants to help other women find their joy in a sober curious or sober serious life through 1:1 and group coaching.

This wife, mom, and kick boxing enthusiast has a fun and refreshingly self-deprecating approach that makes her a relatable and true supportive partner for women wanting to go alcohol-free.   Her BYOB (Build Your Own Break) 31 Day self-paced, online course is a great place to start!

Gray area drinking is a term often-used these days, but how exactly is it defined?  

1. You silently worry and fret about your drinking.
2. You aren't drinking one glass of champagne at a party a few times a year, nor have you hit rock bottom.
3. You can stop drinking and have done so - maybe even for weeks at a time, but you easily fall back into your old habits.
4. People around you don't see that you have a problem with drinking, but it still creates anxiety for you. 
5. You've lost count how many times you've woken and said to yourself, "Never again. I can't keep drinking like this."

In this episode Jen Butler and I discuss:
- The catalyst for making the decision to go alcohol-free
- How chronicling her journey on social media kept her accountable
- Resources she used to stay on track
- The first things she noticed both physical and emotional when she quit drinking
- Her thoughts on moderation
- Why she became a sobriety coach

Check out Jen's engaging and motivating social media at https://www.instagram.com/jenbutlercoach/ 

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Transcript

Asking for a Friend Podcast
Why She Chose a Hangover-free Life
Michele Folan
Jen Butler

alcohol, drinking, journey, love, sobriety, moments, wine, day, podcasts, wanted, moderation, started, life, kids, absolutely, important, coaching, gray, area, 

If you follow me on social media, or even on the podcast, I've mentioned that I've really embarked on my own little midlife health and wellness mission. I've made many changes in regard to how I'm working out, I'm being more intentional with lifting heavy weights. I'm coordinating my daily activity with the amount of macros that I'm taking in prioritizing sleep, and also honoring recovery days, because those are super important in regard to building muscle. I know I'm not alone in this, and many midlife women are wanting to take control of their health to ensure that their later years are the absolute best they can be. But I have to be honest with myself, the one thing that holds me back, and keeps me from feeling my best and getting the most out of my days, and screws with my sleep is alcohol. And I'm at the point where even one cocktail or a glass of wine isn't doing me any favors, I still wake up at 3am. And frankly, it sucks. Not to mention that when we drink our body see it as a toxin, and will prioritize its metabolism over food, thus perpetuating the weight gain. And that's even despite our best efforts to eat, well, that pasta that you just ate with that fabulous glass of wine is just going to have to wait to be converted to energy while your body deals with the alcohol. And I know you've heard this all before. The guests on the podcast, who have made the decision to stop drinking all report amazing outcomes of their sobriety, and they have no regrets in taking the plunge. Here's the thing. When someone you know quit smoking, they are usually applauded for making that life changing decision. But all too often, when someone opts to drop alcohol from their lives, we sometimes make assumptions that the person has a problem or is an alcoholic? Can we just commit that going forward, that we will be as supportive of the sober person as we are others who are embracing a healthier lifestyle? I really think we can do better. My hope is that the guest on this podcast inspire us in many ways. And that maybe we take a step back and look at our own lives and assess what's important as we embark on this journey we call midlife.

Speaker 1  2:56  
Health, Wellness, career, relationships, and everything in between. We're removing the taboo from what really matters in midlife. I'm your host Michele Folan, and this is asking for a friend. Welcome to the show everyone. After today's guest wanted to reach some of her own personal goals. She made the decision at the end of 2017 to kick her wine habit and start her sober journey. Jen Butler wants to help other women find their joy and they're sober, curious, or sober, serious life through one on one and group coaching. Her fun, self deprecating approach makes her relatable and a true supportive partner for anyone's journey going alcohol free. Welcome to the show. Jen Butler. Hello. I'm really happy to have you. Thank you so much. First of all, if you wouldn't mind just telling everyone where you're from where you went to school and your family details.

Speaker 2  4:05  
Yes, I would love to. I'm Jen Butler. I am originally from the Midwest. And I'm very proud of that, even though I haven't lived there full time since I was four. But I am from a little town called Elgin, Illinois. However, I've lived mostly on the East Coast my whole life. So moved around quite a bit as a kid, my mom and I moved to New Jersey and then to Pennsylvania outside of Philadelphia, and then to the Bronx. Now I live with my family in a town called Chappaqua, New York, which is in Westchester County. So we are about 35 minutes north of New York City. I was a stay at home mom for 10 years before becoming a life and recovery coach or sobriety coach. Before that, I was working in the nonprofit world. I received my MBA from the University of Cambridge over in England. Wow. And did my undergraduate at Brown University. I'm going in reverse order here but That's my bio. I have two kids, they are 11, and nine. So going into sixth grade going into fourth grade, and we have two dogs as well.

Speaker 1  5:11  
And they are part of the family. Absolutely. I have my two little peanuts that I love very much. So, yes, you have a story to tell about your sober journey. The reason I wanted to have you on the show is that I have been following you for quite some time. And I think you are very relatable. And I was hoping you would share that with the listeners.

Speaker 2  5:36  
Thank you sharing my journey on Instagram primarily, it was really the key to me, getting to where I needed to go, which is alcohol freedom. And what I consider that to mean is just being free from the burden of alcohol taking up so much brain space and time, in every day of my life, which is what it was, I was a gray area drinker, we can talk about that in more detail. But really what that meant to me was, I was spending so much time and energy, thinking about my drinking, trying to plan my drinking, trying to moderate my drinking, trying to hide sometimes my drinking from my kids or my husband. What I wanted to do was get to a point where I was free from all of that. And when I first started my journey, I didn't know if that would mean sobriety or if that would mean moderation. I really didn't know what it was going to look like. I am sober. It doesn't mean I'll never have another drink. But for right now, this is where I am in my life. And if I get to a point where I think okay, having a drink in this moment is going to add to the moment is going to enhance the moment. Maybe I will. But I haven't had a moment like that in five years.

Speaker 1  6:59  
That's pretty incredible. Was there a certain catalyst? What made you start to think about it just don't know if this is doing me any favors?

Speaker 2  7:10  
It's such a great question. And I think that's a really important question, because so many of us, fortunately, never hit rock bottom. We never have that DUI or spend the night in jail or who knows all these other horrible stories that you hear. For me, there wasn't necessarily one rock bottom moment, it was kind of a series of what I like to call soft rock bottom moments. You know, Celine Dion, not Courtney Love, like soft rock. For example, there was one night where we lost power for four days in the middle of the winter. It was just very stressful with the kids and the dogs trying to stay at a friend's house and hotels until our power came back on because it was about 30 degrees here. When we finally got home after this very stressful few days, I had wine out on the counter. And I said to my husband like Oh, my wine is already chilled, yay. And I ended up drinking the entire bottle. This was when I had started experimenting with taking breaks from drinking. So my tolerance was a lot lower than it had been at the peak of my gray area drinking. I drink that whole bottle that night and was sick at three o'clock in the morning. For me that memory really does stick out because I remember thinking to myself, my body is telling me it cannot handle this anymore to not do this anymore. And I was finally ready to really listen. So with little moments like that a couple of particularly bad hangovers that stand out to me. But really, it was sort of a snowball effect of enough of those little moments that I just got to a point where I was finally ready to make a change. And critically, I felt more excited to make the change than fearful of it. Ooh,

Speaker 1  8:55  
I think that was a really important point. For me. That's poignant to feel like it's not a sentence yes to quit, and that you see the positive out of that. Exactly. Michelle, it's

Unknown Speaker  9:08  
not a punishment, right. It's a gift.

Speaker 1  9:11  
I have felt this in my own life. And you and I talked about this a little bit before we started recording. I don't handle alcohol like I used to the side effects of drinking particularly that 3am Wake up call the high anxiety. All of that seems to be multiplied or worse than it was and I think that has been kind of my wake up. Yes. Is that I don't want to be hungover for two days because that's what hangovers feel like to me now. And I think because it's depressant it there's all kinds of lingering effects that I've gotten. But you said you weren't really feeling out of control so much is that you just didn't like the effects? Yep. Were there goals that you were trying to achieve? that alcohol was holding you back from.

Speaker 2  10:03  
Yes. And I think that that's such an important thing to think about. For anyone who's listening to this who's thinking, Okay, this is starting to ring some bells, I'm getting uncomfortable with my drinking. Now that I'm a little older, it's impacting me more than it did. However you think alcohol may be holding you back, I bet you, it's holding you back even more than that. It was holding me back in every way. Let me count the ways, intellectually, emotionally, mentally, physically, when I first started my journey, I had an overarching goal of wanting to not want to drink to get to a point where I didn't want that glass of wine at five o'clock. That to me was the ultimate goal. And I didn't necessarily believe that I could get there at the beginning. But I thought I've read enough stories now of people who've made it to that point. And that is where I want to be, even if I don't really believe that I can get there, I have to at least try because taking the journey taking these first steps will be better than being stuck in this gray area. But one really important thing. Actually, let me say there were two things. Number one, my daughter was learning to read. I had all the little knickknacks all over my house, I had the sign on the wall that said, It's wine o'clock, I had the towel hanging in my kitchen that said, my favorite salad is wine, all this type of stuff. And she started reading those things. And she was like, Mommy, what does that mean? And I thought, oh my gosh, I don't want her growing up with these messages. All of a sudden, it was not funny anymore. Right? That stuff used to be so funny to me. And as soon as my daughter started to read, it was not so funny. That was one thing that really made me think about what is she seeing? Not only what is she reading, but what is she seeing, she's seeing a mom, who is reaching for the wine every night at five o'clock, to relieve my stress of making dinner for my two kids, or whatever it was, you know, she's seeing all these things, because that's what I saw as a kid. And I don't ever want my children to struggle the way that I did. Therefore, they've got to grow up seeing different stuff than I saw. Yeah. So that was one really important thing, thinking about the impact it was having on my kids. And then the other thing was that I started kickboxing. And this was something that I had always wanted to do, I would take my kids to their martial arts class and the gym where they went had adult kickboxing classes. And I always wanted to try it. And the manager there gave me a coupon for a free week of classes. Because that coupon was over Halloween. I let it expire. Because drinking on Halloween was more important to me at the time than getting into that kickboxing class. And I felt awful when that coupon expired. I felt so shameful and guilty. And the manager said, you know, hey, you never came in. I said, Whoa, you know, Halloween hangover. Hahaha. But really, of course, it wasn't funny. And so he extended it for one more week. Oh, and I went in and loved it immediately. And I loved kickboxing. I just fell in love with it to the point where I realized on the nights before my classes, I didn't want to drink because I wanted to be fully engaged. That was a great catalyst for me as well. And I realized how much alcohol was really holding me back from my fitness goals. Those are just two examples of things that were catalysts for me and also gave me those goals to strive for. I had

Speaker 1  13:31  
I don't know if you know Marnie Ray Clark, but she was on my show a couple weeks ago. Oh, good. I'll have to listen. And one thing that she did say she said, if you are at all questioning your relationship with alcohol, you probably need to assess your relationship with alcohol. Yeah. And I said, Oh, yeah, yeah. But that's hard.

Speaker 2  13:57  
That is profound. People who don't have a problem with drinking, don't ask themselves whether or not they have a problem with drinking,

Speaker 1  14:04  
right? You started posting on social media during dry January of 2018. Did you find that that was just the greatest place to start for you at that point? Yes. Okay.

Speaker 2  14:22  
For me, I love a new year. And I really had reached my again, soft rock bottom in December 2017. So I thought, okay, dry January, like it's time, we got to just do this. Again. I was more excited for the challenge than I was scared to do it. Because I was ready as ready as I could ever have been. I need to give credit where credit is due. It was not my idea to post every day of dry January. It was the idea of a woman that I had connected with online who was being very encouraging about my goals to get alcohol back under control. And she said, if you're going to do dry January, why don't you post every day for our kids. inability. And I thought, oh, that sounds like a good idea. That's what I did. And it's still there. In my same Instagram account, I've kept the same account all these years. So at the very bottom is a post from December 31 2017. And then the next day, day one a dry January, and I did post every day. And to me, even though I didn't have many followers at all at that point, but it was enough to hold me accountable, because I thought, How do I want to show up here? If I'm being brave enough to post about this journey? How do I want to show up? Do I want to show up as a person who's crushing it? Or do I want to show up as the person who's stumbling and giving up? That was a huge tool for me such an important tool? When I talk to clients, anyone who comes across my path? Who says, Where do I even start? One of the very first things I say is you need to think about how you're going to stay accountable and set a realistic goal for yourself and then set yourself up for accountability. It's so important, and it makes a huge difference.

Speaker 1  16:00  
Do you ever suggest to people to have an accountability buddy? Yes, like have a friend to go through this with or a spouse.

Speaker 2  16:09  
It can be really anyone that you need it to be? It doesn't have to be someone in your real life. It can be someone that you meet online, someone that you've connected with through sobriety accounts or through podcasts. But yes, an accountability buddy is so important that motivation and that connection point makes a huge difference.

Speaker 1  16:32  
Once you started, so you got a month in? How did your diet and fitness routine help you stay on track?

Speaker 2  16:41  
It's an interesting question. Because in navigating my sobriety journey, I have also been navigating my diet culture journey, and which for me has been a journey of quitting diet culture. That's a whole other podcast, my friend. Well, we can talk about that one Sunday. In the early days, let's say dry January, my first break, my fitness goals absolutely kept me on track because again, I had fallen in love with kickboxing, and I was able to do so much more. And my workouts were so incredible that that really kept me motivated. In terms of diet stuff, I loosened the reins, I said to myself, the most important thing is that I am not drinking. So that means I need a pint of ice cream. Or if that means I need pizza or whatever it is, or gummy bears or whatever. Because especially in those early days, the sugar cravings can really spike because you're taking away so much sugar from ditching the wine in my case. So I really just gave myself a lot of grace with diet, and I really leaned into fitness for the first time in my life, and I've been exercising forever. I've run two marathons, lots of half marathons, but really it took stopping drinking or starting my sobriety journey to truly enjoy movement. And now it is the fastest my favorite it is my meditation. It's my self care. I love to move my body. And that really started once I started this journey. When did you start

Speaker 1  18:10  
to really feel the physical changes of your sobriety?

Speaker 2  18:15  
Gosh, well, I will say number one, my sleep improved on day one. Unbelievable the difference it makes when you're not having 235 glasses of wine at night, and you sleep through the night. It is a miracle. It feels like a miracle. And sleep is really everything. Especially as we get older. Sleep is the key. My sleep improved immediately. The physical changes were pretty immediate, I would say things like my skin, clearing up things like that, that took a little bit longer. But man that sleep that first good night of sleep is a huge starting off point. Just makes it a massive, massive improvement.

Speaker 1  18:56  
We've talked about sleep a lot. I've had sleep coaches on the show. When you sleep well. It positively affects so many aspects of your life, everything. I'm a big proponent of that. You posted a really funny photo of what you would have eaten on a snow day with your kids at home in 2017 versus 2018. I like laughed out loud when I saw this. Your old snow day was a box of Annie's mac and cheese and a bottle of savan Yan Blanc. Yep. I mean, now would you really eat a whole box of mac and cheese and drink a bottle of seven Yan blanc all by yourself? Yes.

Unknown Speaker  19:43  
Okay, yes, I would have

Speaker 1  19:45  
I had to ask. But I think you've got a great sense of humor that thank you what I find fun. You're very, like I said, self deprecating, but also your humor. keeps you coming back. ACC, to see what you post next, we need to have some humor in the journey I think to get through. I think

Speaker 2  20:07  
that humor? Well, it can go one of two ways, right? It can head towards self kindness, and it can head towards maybe more sarcasm and not so kind. I choose to use humor as a way to remind myself to not sweat the small stuff, and to be kind to myself and just not take it so seriously, like, Okay, this pair of pants doesn't fit anymore, it's fine. At least I'm not drinking a bottle of wine and eating an entire box of mac and cheese. It's really important, I think, to just stay light in the moments that we can, because there are so many heavy moments and things are really hard. And especially in times of transition, especially for women. And I work with a lot of women who are at various points of transition in their lives, whether it's kids going into school full time, whether it's kids going off to college, whether it's menopause, whether it's retirement, these moments are just so heavy. Therefore, when we can see the humor, we need to we need to

Speaker 1  21:12  
Yeah, I have to be able to laugh at myself every once in a while. Absolutely. It's every day. Yes. Good. Now I have to ask you this. Did you falter at any point?

Speaker 2  21:24  
That's an interesting question. Because before that dry January of 2018, I had more day ones than I can count. Okay, there were myriad mornings, where I would wake up and say, Okay, this is it. This is day one, I'm going to take a week off, or month off or whatever. And by five o'clock, my resolve would have crumbled. At the time, when that would happen. I looked at that as a failure. I looked at that as the stumble. Once I started my sobriety journey, I stopped and started a bunch of times I did dry January, successfully, that Super Bowl Sunday, I started drinking again, and was determined to moderate but then got right back to my gray area. So I took another break, I did the alcohol experiment, which is anti racist program. And then after that went back to drinking again, those moments, I could look at those as failures or stumbles. But really, I look at those moments as learning moments. You know, if I have a client who is determined to not drink for a week, but takes a drink on Friday, I always try to say, Listen, what are you learning from that? You're not a bad person you didn't fail? What did you learn from it? That's what's so important. And what I learned along the way is, every time I went back to drinking, it was less and less fun. That's something that I had to mourn, I really had a grieving process to mourn my relationship with alcohol, because I had to acknowledge that it was never going to be the same. It was never going to be as fun as it was in my 20s. But that's okay. And actually, for me, it's really great, because I don't need to be putting those toxins into my body on a regular basis anymore.

Speaker 1  23:06  
I appreciate your honesty there, because we've all had multiple day ones. I to think the message there is you're not starting over? Yes. Because you're really not starting over. You're starting from a place of experience. If you just assess how you feel at that point, then you're making progress. Exactly. Exactly. What resources did you use to stay on track? I know you had to kickboxing. Was there anything else? Any other tricks that you got yourself into that?

Speaker 2  23:42  
I mean, books and podcasts were huge for me, okay, I always start with accountability connection, right. So for me that was posting online every day, during my breaks. And then even when I went back to drinking, I would still post not every day, but I would post and share how I felt share how it was trying to moderate holding myself accountable. sharing my story was a huge tool for me. And then also, soaking in other people's stories was very, very important to me, because alcohol isolates us. It literally changes the chemistry of our brains. And we think that we are the only ones that are struggling that can't stop after one glass. I believe that for a really long time. And obviously that's just not true. There are so many of us who are in this position. Once I decided to start again, not knowing where I would end up but to start on my journey. I read a lot of Quizlet right here. This is my Quizlet shelf. I have a lot of Quizlet on my bookshelf behind me and I still keep those books front and center. Because I love reading other people's stories. I think sharing our stories is one of the most important and impactful things we can do. And that was huge for me and then also podcasts. There were several podcasts that I listened to that were all just such light bulb moments for me again of realizing oh, I'm not The only one that can't just have one glass and feel totally fine. That was absolutely huge. So that's why I'm so thrilled that podcasts have only grown since the start of my journey. I love that you are doing what you're doing. I think it's so important for women, especially to be able to connect in this way and hear these stories so that we know that whatever we're struggling with, whether it's hormones, or alcohol, or diet or whatever, that we are absolutely not alone.

Speaker 1  25:29  
And we're not crazy. Yes. You know what I mean? It's, oh, gosh, no, there's so many other people dealing with whatever it is. And there is help out there. And it's okay, to seek help. You are not admitting weakness, by seeking someone's advice and counsel and coaching, to help you get to where you want to go. And I preach that all the time. And I know people get tired of me saying it, but I have to say it. I don't. I want to talk about moderation. Because it's a tough topic. Yes. I think you've got an opinion about moderation. I have a little experience

Speaker 2  26:20  
with moderation. And I do. It's very tricky territory. I think that it's important to be honest with ourselves and with each other about moderation. I have clients who come to me and say, I'm ready to stop, I'm done. And I have clients who come to me and say, I want to cut back, I cannot imagine my life without alcohol, I want to cut back. What I say to them is great. You are absolutely capable of doing that. Know that it's a lot of work. It's actually easier to stop, in my opinion, it is easier to stop, because that's the rule. You can't have it you're not going to have it, you're going to do other stuff instead. A lot of people say to me, oh my gosh, you Kevin had alcohol for five years, how can you do that? How do you possibly do that? That, to me is a lot simpler than trying to moderate all this time. Moderation is absolutely possible. I think it takes a lot of work and a lot of organization. But it is doable. I think what's very important is to be honest with ourselves and to think about, is alcohol adding positively to my life? And if that answer is yes. Okay. What do you need to do then to make sure that it stays as a positive part of your life? And not something that makes you feel bad about yourself? Or that makes you feel out of control? Or any of those negative impacts of alcohol?

Speaker 1  27:54  
makes you question? Yep, just makes you question. Why am I doing this? Okay, that's good. I am curious what you reach for now. What do you drink when you go out to dinner?

Speaker 2  28:07  
That is something I think so many people are afraid to even start on this path. Because they can't even imagine not ordering alcohol at a restaurant or on a girls night or celebrating an anniversary or birthday. It was something that was very hard for me at first to to imagine, well, what am I going to drink? Now, I am at a point where I again because I've reached this point of alcohol freedom, where I know that when I go out on a date with my husband or go out with friends, I am there to enjoy connecting with the person that I'm with or the people that I'm with. I am not there to get buzz or to get drunk. We think that we need alcohol to connect to each other and actually, alcohol numbs us to that authentic connection. Now when I go out, I might have a club soda with lime. I actually always do look at the drinks menu to see what the alcohol free options aren't my family. We were just in London. We went to a pub for dinner one night and they had Guinness zero, which I'd never tried before. And I was like oh, oh my gosh, how fun I'm gonna have a Guinness zero so I had again a zero, the alcohol free or NA or non alcoholic options that are out there on the market now it is incredible. Yeah, how this market has exploded. It is no longer just odours and I know you had my very dear friend Deb pod lager on your podcast talking about all things mocktails. So if anybody is curious about what the options are, definitely listen to Deb and follow her. Because there are so many options. It's impossible to list them all. To get back to your original question. Usually we'll just have a club soda with lime honestly and it makes me very happy and it keeps me hydrated. If the menu has a fun mocktail, or a fun Have a beer. I will definitely order that though, because it's fun to have something that's not water.

Speaker 1  30:04  
I agree. I get a little tired of that club soda and lime. But even here at home if I'm not drinking because I still drink, but when I don't want to I have come up with some creative things. And you're right. The options out there are amazing. I had shared on a previous show. I had been in Madison, Wisconsin, and we were at this cute little restaurant as with work colleagues. They had a whole menu of craft curated cocktails that were non alcoholic. Oh,

Unknown Speaker  30:37  
I love that.

Speaker 1  30:39  
It's happening. It's just a little slow, but we'll get there.

Speaker 2  30:43  
It really is. I love Madison does not surprise me. They're they're ahead of the curve. I will say one really easy mocktail to order which I do order occasionally my go to mocktail. If there's nothing on the menu or whatever's on the menu doesn't look good. Is a virgin Mojito. Tastes amazing. It's so refreshing. It's very easy. Like the bartender knows what to do. It doesn't taste like it's missing anything. I love a virgin Mojito.

Speaker 1  31:07  
I do half soda, half tonic, because I think it gives it a little bite. Yep. Yep. A little bit of cranberry and two limes. Oh, I love that. That's my little go to.

Unknown Speaker  31:20  
I'm going to try that tonight. My Michelle mocktail,

Speaker 1  31:24  
and I'm going to try the mojito. Excellent. At what point did you Jen Butler decide that you wanted to coach others who were on a sober journey?

Speaker 2  31:36  
Oh, gosh, everything aligned for me. My kids were both in elementary school full time. So my son, my younger one went into kindergarten. And then COVID hit, and everything hit the fan. And COVID gave me that sort of space and that disconnection from the routine that we had been in. So I was able to actually think, Okay, what's next for me? What do I want to do now that both of my kids are in school, I will say to when I first started my journey, there were a lot fewer coaches, and I didn't even know that sobriety coaches were a thing. What I realized now is that a couple of these women that I connected with online, really acted as coaches. For me, I just didn't know it at the time when I've had these moments, and I will be honest, it was definitely when my kids were both on their iPads during COVID. And I actually had a moment to think to myself, I thought, if I can help one other woman get to this point of alcohol freedom. That's all I need. That will have been worth it. I started researching coaching programs in 2020 and into 2021. And in April 2021, I did my dual certification program. And then by September, October, I was coaching.

Speaker 1  32:57  
Excellent. That's great. You said that you're familiar with Annie Grace's alcohol experiment? Yes.

Unknown Speaker  33:04  
I love that program.

Unknown Speaker  33:05  
How would yours compare, because you developed your own program,

Speaker 2  33:09  
I have an online course called BYOB build your own break. That course, I was really inspired by the alcohol experiment, because that program absolutely changed my life. I love that program. I loved getting an email every day, the way that I did it. It's a little bit different now. But it was a free online program. And you just got an email every day. And you could do a journal prompt. And I love that content so much. And I love the idea of a daily lesson. My program is also 31 days, you get a daily lesson with journal prompts, and worksheets and all that fun stuff. And it's really just a curation of all the tools that were the most helpful for me. I call it build your own break, because you can add on to it. If you would like text and email support, if you would like to do individual coaching. Those are like extra modules that you can add on. But if you just want to take the course and see how it goes, you can also just do that. And then I also offer one to one coaching. That's the digging the good stuff that is the personal connection. That is the client stepping up and choosing to invest in themselves and create true and lasting change. And it is magic. I love it.

Unknown Speaker  34:18  
Can you share a success story that you have?

Speaker 2  34:21  
Sure I absolutely can, oh gosh, it's hard to pick. But the person who comes to mind immediately is someone who had been following me online for a long time through my sober journey. And she had just gotten to a point where she was starting to think about coaching when I announced that I was going to become a coach. So it was just kind of like meant to be we started working together. Oh she's taken various breaks she did 100 days. She's done dry months here and there dry July sober October, things like that. And then she just as I did back in the day for me in 2018 she had this Her inner voice, I'd like pointing at my gut, because that's where it really comes from this inner voice that told her to take a year off. And she is over 250 days into her one year. Fabulous with no alcohol, she is thriving, she is absolutely thriving. And this is someone who, again, like me, never believed that she could do it didn't even necessarily think that's what she wanted, but has come to a point where she realizes that this is where she wants to be and how she wants to live. And she's killing it. And I know she's gonna listen to this. And I just want to tell her how proud I am of her. She's incredible. That's so

Speaker 1  35:43  
nice. That's really great. And she should be proud of herself to that she took the initiative. Absolutely. Here's the thing, do it before someone tells you

Speaker 2  35:56  
that you have to. Yeah. And the reason I say that is, so often, our doctors or a medical professional will say, Hey, your numbers don't look good. You need to stop. I think at that point, then it's not a choice. And it's nice to have the choice to say I did this on my own because I wanted it for myself. I love that you said that. And I think by being proactive, you can get yourself into such a good mindset right off the bat, this mindset of I am giving myself this gift. This is not a punishment, it's a gift. As opposed to as you just said, Right? A doctor saying you need to do this, then it's really going to feel more like a punishment. And it's even harder to get to that point of that positive, wonderful growth mindset of like, I'm investing in myself, this is amazing. And listen, I know that it is not easy to do these things for ourselves. We go through life doing so much for so many other people. The other day, I like bought myself new underwear. That was like a moment for me. Because I was like, I don't really need new underwear, I can keep wearing the same underwear I've had for eight years. It's like know what, I deserve new underwear. It's just it's hard to choose to make these investments in ourselves. But if you have that voice, and you're tired of trying to do it on your own, just No, you don't have to do it on your own. And that you are absolutely worth the investment and the time and the energy that it takes because we all deserve to feel free of these, whatever the substance or whatever the thing is that's weighing you down.

Speaker 1  37:41  
I love that, Jen, thank you for saying that. I would love for you to tell the audience where they can find Jen Butler and your coaching program.

Speaker 2  37:51  
Thank you. I am on Instagram, my instagram handle is at Jen with one Jen Butler coach. I'm actually currently on a hiatus from my account because I decided to take the summer away from that account because I have some other projects that I'm working on. But that is where there's so much content on there. And again, if you scroll all the way to the bottom, you can read my entire journey. Then my coaching practice is called joy in during so it's joy in i n during.com. I named it that because my goal is to help women find joy in their journey. It's not about when I crossed the finish line, I'll be happy. It's about how can I find joy along the way, because that is what we all deserve. And it doesn't mean it's not hard work. But it is possible to find those moments of joy to keep you going and to get you to where you want to go.

Speaker 1  38:48  
I highly recommend you all checking out Jen's Instagram. It's very fun and it's super motivating. Jim Butler, thank you for being here today.

Speaker 2  38:59  
Oh, Michelle, thank you so much for having me on. I love talking to you and I love what you're doing in this space

Speaker 1  39:13  
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Transcribed by https://otter.ai