Ep.106 From Cult to Comedy: Shannon Payton Discovers Strength and Recovery Through Humor

Our travel through health and wellness on the podcast doesn't end with menopause, diets, and dumbbells; today we venture into the tangled realm of cults with Shannon Payton. Her raw account, as a survivor and thriver, of a youth and adult spent within the restrictive walls of a religious cult, not only educates but also empowers, as she recounts her evolution with a resilience that's both poignant and humorous.

Life inside a religious cult isn't a tale often told with candid laughter and heartfelt revelations, yet this is precisely the narrative Shannon brings to our episode. Through her eyes, we witness the stifling grip of controlling environments and the liberating exodus that reshaped her entire world. Our conversation weaves through her unique childhood experiences, the challenges of forging real friendships post-cult, and the sweet triumph of building a family through adoption, all of which have sculpted a woman who now champions the expansive opportunities she provides for her children.

With each twist and turn of life's journey, Shannon has embraced laughter as her lifeline, a truth that resonated deeply during the isolation of the pandemic. Her spontaneous rise to social media stardom and the creation of a podcast sanctuary for those affected by coercive control have marked her as a beacon of relatability and healing. It's not just about the laughs; it's about the connections, the stories, and the collective healing we experience when we share. Join us for a conversation that promises to touch your heart, tickle your funny bone, and perhaps, inspire your next step forward.

You can find Shannon Payton at:
https://shannypantsshow.com/
Instagram @therealshannypants
YouTube Shanny Pants Show

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Transcript

Michele Folan: 0:00

At the age of 59, I wasn't looking or feeling my best. I had low energy, I was tired all the time and I was losing muscle, gaining fat, and what I had done in the past for my diet and exercise were no longer serving me. I wanted to do better for myself and started doing some research and landed on the faster way. This science-based nutrition and fitness program is like no other. It includes both food guidance and daily workouts that are tailored to fit your goals, and it's perfect for midlife women. I'm excited to start working with clients and introduce you to a sustainable, healthy lifestyle that can lay the foundation for this next phase of life. Are you ready to prioritize you? Check the show notes of this episode and let's connect. Now on to the show Health, wellness, fitness and everything in between. We're removing the taboo from what really matters in midlife.

Michele Folan: 1:07

I'm your host, Michele Folan, and this is Asking for a Friend. Believe it or not, there are up to 10,000 cults in existence in the United States today. There are no state or federal laws that prohibit cults, and sociologists and researchers now prefer to term them New Religious Movement or NRM. I've been wanting to cover this topic for a while, and when I started following our next guest on Instagram, I had no idea she was also a cult survivor. Shannon Payton, also known as Shanny Pants, is a content creator, podcaster and realtor, and I have no idea where she finds the time to do all that, but she has created many viral moments on social media where she shares her makeup tutorial parodies and self-deprecating humor. Her podcast, the Shanny Pants Show, gives Shannon a platform to share her struggles growing up in a cult and other aspects of her adult life, and she is truly hilarious. Welcome to Asking for a Friend, Shannon Payton.

Shannon Payton: 2:23

Thank you so much. I'm very, very excited to be here.

Michele Folan: 2:26

Thank you for being here and very nice to meet you. Where are you living now and tell me a little bit about your family?

Shannon Payton: 2:34

Yes, so I live about 20 minutes east of Sacramento. Everyone knows where Sacramento is, so I just use that as a point. California I have three children let's see, they're 10, 12, and 16, and a husband and a dog and a cat and just the busy life of having kiddos this age. It's every day it's like, wow, we made it through another day. Yay, look at us. So it's craziness, but it's also a lot of fun.

Michele Folan: 3:04

Yeah, and you have a big girl job in addition to your more creative outlet.

Shannon Payton: 3:10

Yeah, I sure do.

Michele Folan: 3:11

We'll get into that, but let's get to the meat of this. Because you did grow up in a cult, can you share more about this group? Is it religious? What were they about?

Shannon Payton: 3:24

Yes, it was definitely a religious cult. It started with my grandparents' generation and it started, I think, innocently enough with Bible studies in home. They kind of wanted to separate themselves from denominations, so I think it kind of started as a pretty innocent thing. And then, from what I understand, it sounds like in the early 80s the person who took over and was in charge the entire time I was there kind of got on a power trip and started making a lot of changes and enforcing a lot of rules and, as things like this go, everyone just kind of followed along and it turned into a big movement of people kind of across the United States and I think we had a group in Canada and Mexico and Peru actually I forgot about Peru so it kind of ended up spreading.

Shannon Payton: 4:19

There was a pretty wide range of. We called them assemblies, so each little group was called an assembly, and so we were in the Sacramento assembly and my parents were both born into it and so they married in it. I was born in 81 and lived my life in it. I have two sisters. One was 18 months younger than me or is, and then baby sister is nine years younger than me. So we always tease her that she's kind of like an only child because she was spoiled rotten and didn't get all the rules quite as tough as me and my other sisters, the crap.

Shannon Payton: 4:59

Yeah, we're like, by the way, you are welcome for us doing all this other stuff for you, so you got a cool life. I always tell her, like dunkaroos I don't know if you know what dunkaroos are, but we're like you got dunkaroos. We never got dunkaroos. You were the one that got dunkaroos. That's how spoiled you were. So that's like our you know our gauge of how spoiled she is.

Shannon Payton: 5:24

But yeah, so I lived my whole life in it and as far as, like it definitely was religious based, one of the main things about it is we were the right way and everyone else was wrong, which is very typical in any cultic group, and so churches were bad, churches were wrong. So we didn't use a lot of church lingo. We wouldn't even call a pastor a pastor. It was the speaker, the speaker and then the leaders. Yeah, so it was like we really really did not use any church, very little church type lingo, which is weird, you know, because it's such a religious thing. So it was, you know, kind of growing up in that environment was it was really really challenging, and especially for girls and women, which again is kind of one of those typical things in a lot of the religious type cults, and so it was very, very confusing. I would say it was very, very confusing. I would say Like, when I look back on my childhood, I just like that's the word that just to me wraps it all up is very confusing.

Shannon Payton: 6:30

We believed in marking, which was like excommunication. So we called it marking to be avoided. And what that was is if someone you know disagreed or argued or did something that was deemed inappropriate, they would be marked to be avoided. So if you saw them at the store, you don't make eye contact, you don't look at them, you walk the other direction. It was like for sure, just, you are not in contact with this person at all.

Shannon Payton: 7:00

And when I was about six, one of my dad's sisters married his best friend and they were a part of our group and so I grew up with those cousins and when I was about six, their family got marked and so it went from being best friends one of them is right at my age to all of a sudden not seeing them at six years old. Seeing them at six years old and like I have memories of like laying in bed, praying that they would get right, so that they could come back, because that's how we did for everyone. You know they were very wrong, of course, and we were very worried for them, and so I just can remember as a child being so worried for their souls, basically, like I don't know what they did, but obviously it was wrong. And so that was, I feel, like, my first memories of that confusion where it was just like how, like why, why is this that way?

Michele Folan: 7:58

So now looking back. Do you know now why they were marked?

Shannon Payton: 8:04

Yes, they basically were standing up to leadership and questioning very simple questionings like clothing, how we had to dress, very simple things, but they weren't backing down with it. It ended up being a group of I don't even know, but a pretty large chunk that were all marked at one time and so, yeah, it was literally over like we want to wear pants and we're saying no. So it was stupid. Really, looking back, it's funny how ridiculous it is that like, oh, I lost out pretty much my entire childhood with like three of my best cousins, you know, and it's just gone and we have.

Shannon Payton: 8:50

you can't make that up and I think of, I feel so bad for my parents because they were so close and they lost their best friends. You know, because someone says you're not allowed to talk to them. You know, because someone says you're not allowed to talk to them. So in it, divided, so the markings divided. So many families, so so many families. It was just like looking back, so disgusting, it's just so sad.

Michele Folan: 9:14

So, at the peak of this cult, how many people were in it?

Shannon Payton: 9:26

in your particular sect. Yeah, in our assembly we had about, I would say, about 100 to 150 people in our you know kind of, maybe at our peak there. And then I would say each assembly across the United States was around that size. The Texas assembly was much bigger, they were probably more like 500. But yeah, so we were about 150. And that was our world. These 100 people are your friends, your life, the only people you really hang out with. That was it.

Michele Folan: 9:51

Did they school you too, or did you go to a public school?

Shannon Payton: 9:54

So we were privileged enough because my parents were very rebellious.

Shannon Payton: 9:58

We went to a public school and we grew up in a little tiny little town and so we went to the same school from K to eighth and then high school with basically all the same kids.

Shannon Payton: 10:11

So that was nice. Most of the families were homeschooled that I grew up with and I think good and bad for the experience of being in public school because it was good in the fact that it was our only really outside experience with the world versus our little group but it also opened us up to we had to dress real special, so we had to have long skirts, no tank tops, no piercings Well, of course, as a kid that doesn't matter too much but no tattoos. We couldn't cut our hair, so we had really really long hair. We definitely stood out in a public school setting. So it opened us up to a lot of bullying, and so I have a lot of traumatic experiences in public school. But at the same time I'm thankful because I look at most of the kids that I was raised with that were homeschooled and I'm like, yeah, I think I, even though I endured a lot like as a kid that I hate.

Michele Folan: 11:10

I think it was still worth it that we went to public school. Yeah, I can't even imagine how you would have felt so different. You know, first of all, you're in a cult. Did the other kids know that you were in this cult, or did no one talk about it in this cult, or did no one talk?

Shannon Payton: 11:22

about it. So like kids at school, is that what you mean? Yes, so like they were very confused and they would always ask, like, why can't you wear pants, why can't you wear shorts? And I didn't really know, because it never made sense to me. But we always said it was like a modesty thing, like we have to be very modest, and so I would just say that and then, kind of of I got to the point where I was just like, oh, it's because of the group that I'm in, and so they'd be like your church, and I'm like finally started being like yeah, I guess. Like, yeah, my church group, yeah, that's why this is what we believe.

Shannon Payton: 11:57

And so the kids they needed like a name, because we had no name, because we had no name, we had no name on our church or at our group. And so they called my kids that I grew up with in elementary school, started saying oh well, you're a new Christian, we'll just call you a new Christian. So that's what they all called me. It's just like she's a new Christian. She's definitely not like a normal Christian, but she's a new one. This is a new thing. So it was funny because it kind of got deemed as anyone from our group that did go to public school. They just assumed, oh yeah, they're a new Christian.

Michele Folan: 12:30

So yes, yeah, beth Dombkowski. And then, during this time, was anybody in your immediate family marked? Did you lose contact with anybody in your family?

Shannon Payton: 12:42

Well, besides my cousins and aunt and uncle, my sister who's 18 months younger than me this was when we were older we got married really young because that's what you did you met someone when you're 10 and kind of figure, oh, I'll probably marry that one. And so we were married really young. And when they had been married, probably like I don't know a couple of years, they left. So they were never officially marked because I don't think anyone could find a good enough reason to mark them because, like they never argued or bothered anyone, they just left. But we didn't have contact with her because it was very frowned upon and she lived like literally a mile from me and we were really close.

Shannon Payton: 13:30

That was very, very hard. And then, looking back, during those times, she got really sick, she almost died, she was in the hospital oh gosh, I know. So that was like when I went to the hospital and it was like the first time I had seen her in a long time, and I remember, looking back, like I was very judgmental which is how we were raised to be about every decision, basically that she was choosing in life because it was different than what we grew up with and it was different than what we deemed right. So that is like probably one of the most painful things I carry from that experience is just like how sad our relationship was for several years. You know again, you can't get that time back and I was not nice to her, I was very judgmental.

Michele Folan: 14:18

And it's really sad. You knew early in life who you were probably going to marry. I mean, I hate to say this, but it had to be kind of slim pickings. If you were in such and that's a relatively small group of people, how did you meet your husband?

Shannon Payton: 14:40

Yes, yes. So we basically didn't marry anyone in our group, but what we would do, we weren't allowed to celebrate any holidays. So during holidays, twice a year, our big camps we called like whenever we'd get together at a different place besides, like our Grange Hall, it was a camp. So we would have December, during Christmas, and July, during 4th of July, we would have camps, big ones, and for anyone from California you'll know where this is very near Fresno, california. It's like farm town, smells like cows all the time. We would rent their fairgrounds for our camp. So we would literally rent an entire fairground and assemblies from all over the country would come. So there was probably, you know, like a thousand people at this. So that's where you would like, twice a year, get to see your friend from Texas or your friend from Virginia. So those were kind of our like you know, meat market type situations where it was like, okay, tag, speed dating. Yes, it really was yes, and that's what it was. Truly, all the teens were checking people out and like, okay, well, that one's still available. But for me, yeah, it was really special For me, my husband, because we are all so connected, my husband's grandparents and my grandparents were friends because we are all so connected. My husband's grandparents and my grandparents were friends and my parents and his parents grew up knowing each other and then when he was in sixth grade, they lived in California but they were in the San Luis Obispo Assembly. So when he was in sixth grade they moved to the Sacramento Assembly. So I pretty much knew him well from sixth grade on.

Shannon Payton: 16:20

When I was 12, I knew I was going to marry him. So that was kind of like when it's just like, and that was always really fun to just explain to people at school too. So, like you say, you have a boyfriend like we've never what, we never see him, we don't know who he is, and because we didn't do any activities at school like no extracurricular activities, we never did like t-ball soccer, we weren't allowed to do anything. So they always would like not make fun of me but like joke around, like I don't think he really exists, like that's kind of weird, I don't think he exists, but yeah. So at 12 years old I knew I was going to marry him and that was it. But yes, very slim, picking and a lot you know.

Shannon Payton: 17:00

For me I feel like we were kind of fortunate because we did grow up for the most part in the same assembly, so we saw each other at least three times a week and it's not like we never dated or anything. You just saw them at meetings and that's what you did. But for a lot of people, a lot of my friends, they would have long-distance relationships with someone, like in Texas, and you would talk on the phone a little bit. It wasn't like now with cell phones or anything and then you would marry them Like you did not know the person you were marrying. It's very strange. I mean, maybe you meet them two or three times in person and then you're married. So I feel pretty fortunate I didn't have to do that, but yeah, pretty bad.

Michele Folan: 17:45

And so there was no extracurricular activities at school. So no, like Girl Scouts sports, oh no, so the guys didn't get to participate in any sports or anything.

Shannon Payton: 17:57

No, and that was like my husband I mean. He doesn't still have hangups about it, but that's like one of the things he can get really worked up over, because him and his brothers were all so athletic and should have been playing so many different sports and they just they weren't allowed to and yeah, it's really sad. So it's fun now having kids and like, yeah, sure, what sport do you want to do this week? Let's do them all. Let's do them all. Let's overcommit, Right.

Michele Folan: 18:30

How old were you then?

Shannon Payton: 18:30

when you got married. I was 19 when we got married. I yeah a lot of my friends were like 17, 18. So we were kind of waited a little while I graduated high school and then we waited a full year which was not very normal before we got married, and so I was 19 and he was. He turned 21 like a couple weeks after we got married.

Michele Folan: 18:54

So yeah, babies, yeah, that is really young. I was 26 when I got married the first time and I thought that was young.

Shannon Payton: 19:05

Right, it is now. I'm like oh, I hope my kids don't wait until they're 30.

Michele Folan: 19:10

Yeah, exactly. Wait. No, don't rush into it. Is the cult still around?

Shannon Payton: 19:22

Yes. So what kind of happened when we got out? I'll kind of start there, if that's okay, because that kind of explains what's left. But I got out when I was 31 years old. So I lived my whole life in it, First child when we had was still there in the cult, and then when I was 31, our generation really started pushing back on a lot of the normal questions that we pushed back our whole life and we had. Like, my family was always very rebellious, like my parents did terrible things like take us to Disneyland and let us wear sweatpants at home, and terrible things. So there was enough.

Shannon Payton: 19:56

Just terrible. I mean, ah, going to hell. So there was enough families that kind of started getting sick of things that they turned into these rebellious families as well, and then our generation really started pushing back like this is ridiculous, you're not giving us clear answers, you're just basically saying don't ask, because they don't want to give us answers, they don't want the pushback, because they don't have answers. It's silliness. So enough people started like this kind of movement that the leadership really was losing control.

Shannon Payton: 20:36

And it happened across the country because you had men, a lot of men to like my dad's age, were connecting and saying like I don't agree with this, where are you at? And they'd be like, yeah, no, I don't either. And so all these people are realizing like, oh, there's more of us that don't believe this, there's more of us that are done with this. And so it ended up being kind of like a mass exodus where every, not every a lot of people it like dissolved. So we never got officially marked. We still kind of were like, oh, I wish I had that official like marking letter because they're so hilarious, but they so we never got officially marked, but it literally like dissolved.

Shannon Payton: 21:15

And so in our area there was, I don't know, maybe like a group of 20, like maybe three families left and that didn't work because you have like cousins hanging out but no, like it was awful, so they all moved down. There's a group. So what's left? All that say is there's a group in LA and Los Angeles area in California that's left pretty small group. And then there's a group in Texas that is left and it is now led by the son of the one who ran it when I was there.

Shannon Payton: 21:53

The one who ran it when I was there is now just kind of like laying low and not doing much of anything. He does like online meetings and posts them and it's hilarious because it's like it has a name now and I'm like, wait, that was like a huge thing, we couldn't have a name, and so it's kind of funny. But his son is oh, it just makes my stomach when I listen to some of his stuff that we covertly have access to. So it's pretty, it's sad. I mean I laugh about it because I'm like, yay, it's falling apart, because every time you like see something, it's like oh, it's so much smaller. Oh, it's so much smaller.

Shannon Payton: 22:39

But it's sad. I just feel bad for the families that are left. My husband's parents are still there and so that's hard. We're not super close, so it's not really hard for me. I just feel bad for my husband and I feel bad for my kids that their grandparents put that over us as a family. So it's sad. And they're retired and they travel around in a motor home, so they'll go.

Shannon Payton: 22:59

Oh, there is a small group in San Luis. Still, they'll travel around the country to all where all the little tiny groups are left, but we're always second. It's like, oh well, we're going to go to a camp in San Luis, so then hopefully we'll have time to come see you. And it's like, yeah, whatever, like, whatever. Obviously we don't mean enough that you would come see your grandkids before the camp. So it's pretty sad, but that's what they've chosen and we welcome them. Like whenever they do come to town, we go out to dinner and we do something with them. But it's just sad. It's like the grandkids don't know them and at this point my kids are old enough. All their grandkids are old enough.

Michele Folan: 23:40

At this point, that they're never going to have real relationships with them.

Shannon Payton: 23:43

So it's pretty sad.

Michele Folan: 23:43

That is sad, but you know, it's like you had your exit ramp right and you had to prioritize your life. And I got to ask you this though what was your state of mind coming out of this? Because you were there through the time you were 31 years old. How do you kind of deprogram yourself at this point?

Shannon Payton: 24:10

It was really challenging and it's interesting to look back because when we left it was kind of just like it was like a fog, like there's lots of things about those couple of years that is just kind of like I think I just disassociate from. But it was such a challenge because we were told and taught for our whole lives that you know, all churches were bad. Pretty much everyone else in the world is wrong and bad. So as we branched out, my husband had a job where he was meeting other people and he met this one guy kind of our age and him and his wife wanted to hang out. That was so weird because it's like we don't just meet someone and then you just hang out with them, like what. And so it was really strange to start having relationships like that. And then I remember my son was about four and someone had asked me oh, you should sign him up for a VBS, like the summer Bible school programs for kids. And I'm just like, hello, do you know how bad churches are? And so it was like little things like that though that would happen, that I would, oh, finally sign him up one summer, and I was like, oh my gosh, he had so much fun and I met some amazing people and, okay, maybe everyone in the world is not terrible and it kind of was a very slow transition and also we had no knowledge of what kind of group we had been a part of. We just thought it was a kind of different church, right.

Shannon Payton: 25:46

And so now we have the language to say like we were brainwashed, we were in a cult and the trauma that we experienced the spiritual and religious trauma is real, that we experienced and that we made it through. And so back then we didn't have that. We didn't reach out to therapists. Therapists were terrible. You don't tell people you have problems, everything's great, and so all these things that have been basically programmed into your mind. It took a long time. It probably took me six years until I went to my first therapy appointment and that was crazy. And that was the first time and I still love her today that I was kind of talking to her about what I was struggling with or whatever, and explaining my story. And she was like, oh, okay, so you were in a cult and I'm like, no, no, no, no, no, no, it was just this little group, cool people, really weird people hanging out and she was like yeah, no, that's a cult, and so that triggered me to kind of be more aware of what kind of group it was.

Shannon Payton: 26:54

But it was still tough, even like within our marriage, like we were raised a certain way, the women were very lowly, we didn't have jobs or control over anything. Basically you stayed home and did the wash, raised the kids and cooked dinner, and so it took us a long time to transition from that to realize like why am I sitting at home when I could have a job helping us support our household? Like this makes no sense. So it kind of was a slow unravel and learning. And then, honestly, for me it's been since pretty much since COVID, so the last several years, when I've really have realized the damage that it's caused. Because I had basically like a mental breakdown during COVID and kind of was just thinking, oh, it's just because we're stuck at home and I don't do homeschool with my kids, my kids are pretty challenging.

Shannon Payton: 27:48

So I kind of was just thinking that was my problem and why I was having a rough time and part of it of course was that, and then realizing, once I started going to therapy regularly, that, oh no, I have a lot of PTSD, I have a lot of trauma from my childhood and adulthood that has never been taken care of. So it's pretty much been the last several years where I've taken care of the real problems. And it's tough, and I see a lot of my friends that also had gotten out the same time as me that have done nothing as far as the hard work it takes to kind of deprogram and I feel like they're kind of stuck, which I was for a long time too, and so I am thankful for where I'm at now. But also it's so much freaking work that I get why people push it down and ignore it, because it's so much work to heal.

Michele Folan: 28:46

It's something that we talk about a lot getting coaching, getting therapy. You're only as good as you are inside and I'm just kind of curious what drove you to finally seek help.

Shannon Payton: 29:12

Well, when it was very serious, even before COVID, I had gotten some help, but it was more sporadic on and off, but a lot of it came down to our marriage. We started having a lot of issues in our marriage and a couple of our children are really challenging, and so that takes a toll the parenting role on both of us it did which then in turn didn't help the marriage either. And so we kind of got to a place in our marriage during COVID where it was which I'm sure a lot of people did during COVID where it was like, okay, we have to really really do something here or we're done Like this isn't going to work. And I mean honestly, most of my friends are divorced from our group rightfully so. And again, we've had to put in really really, really hard work to stay where we're at now. And we're at the place now where we're happier than we've ever been as far as our marriage, and it's awesome and I'm very grateful for it. Yeah, but it took literally a mental breakdown for me to understand that I need more than like every once in a while I have a bad day and I call the therapist to get an appointment, and I was very unhealthy, I ended up going on medic. I mean, I'm still on medication. I actually just last month had to add to my medication ritual. But, understanding that it's okay to need help because we were raised where you're fine, you stuff your feelings.

Shannon Payton: 30:36

All of our relationships like people will say, oh, you must have been so close to these people because you all were together all the time. And it was the opposite. All the relationships were so superficial because you couldn't trust anyone and you didn't know who was going to like say something about you, like so Shannon told me da, da, da and get you in trouble. And so we literally, like, looking back, all we did was like gossip, and and yet that was like spoke from the platform, no gossiping, and that's all we did. We sat around, we ate food and we talked and about the weather, like it was so sad.

Shannon Payton: 31:14

None of my relationships from the people I left do I miss where I'm just like, oh. I mean there are certain people that's like, oh, I wish I could see them more often, but none of my relationships were deep enough to where, like we stay. I have two friends that I stay in touch with, that we're still friends, but other than that it's not like, oh, I had these mentors, older women that I looked up to, absolutely not Like very, very sad, very superficial. So, yeah, it took a while to realize, like, how much damage that did and like, oh, I do need real help because stuffing the feelings and not talking about this stuff. And now obviously I'm a talker and I and it's so therapeutic to talk now and I encourage people to do it and it's not for everyone, but it's so therapeutic for me and I love it. It's great. Are you able?

Michele Folan: 32:05

To form bonds with people now.

Shannon Payton: 32:09

Yes, and yes.

Shannon Payton: 32:11

And that has been, oh my gosh. That has been one of the most amazing experiences Again, because I didn't understand what true friendship was and like I would call her one of my best friends. She lives right up the street from me. I just worked out with her this morning. We kind of connected maybe a year or two before COVID and hit it off and like our backgrounds are completely different, Our beliefs are completely different, and so, you know, the old me is saying like, yeah, she's nice, but this can't work and it's like we do everything together, Like we're going on family trips with them this summer, Like we're such good friends with them and I just I absolutely I don't know.

Shannon Payton: 32:58

I'm still in awe of it because it's like, oh, oh, weird, Okay, so this is what a true friendship is. I can trust you with really hard things and know you're not going to go tattle on me or even gossip or tell someone else when I say, hey, this is. I don't want you to repeat this. I know it's not going to get repeated. It's amazing, Like it's honestly like still, like I'm in awe of how awesome it is to have a relationship like that.

Michele Folan: 33:22

I don't. I never asked you how old you are now.

Shannon Payton: 33:25

I'm 43.

Michele Folan: 33:26

Okay, so you're 43 years old and you're really discovering life. Yeah, truly, it's really kind of a cool thing to go through this now and really appreciate it, whereas when we're kids we may not necessarily appreciate that depth of a relationship. How about your siblings?

Shannon Payton: 33:46

How are you doing with them? Yeah, good now, of course, we're all out, thankfully, and so, yeah, I have really good relationships with my sisters. One lives in Florida now and then one lives down on the coast about six hours from me, so I don't get to see either one of them very much, but we're very close. We always get together for Christmas now and they both used to live up closer to me and when they were here we were together a lot but super close, love them to death. Love all my nieces and nephews and it's really fun to see all of my nieces and nephews and my kids, their bonds that they have together. It's so fun to see that with them growing up.

Michele Folan: 34:26

I love it, I love it, that's nice speaking of kids, you did struggle with infertility but you have kids now, so what

Shannon Payton: 34:36

transpired there. So we went through infertility when we were in the cult and that was a huge. That's like where a lot of my trauma comes from. But that was a huge deal because I felt like I was being punished by God for doing something wrong, which I wasn't sure what I did wrong, but for not having babies because that was our job to have kids. And so so we went through about three years of infertility very stressful, I mean. In normal circumstances it's one of the worst things I think a person can have to deal with. And then in our situation it was just that much more, with just the discomfort of like it was just weird, it was just very I felt very unsupported and like people would just talk about me but no one really knew. It was just very weird, it was, it was awful, but we were never able to get pregnant and so then we decided to adopt.

Shannon Payton: 35:29

My husband was a lot like ready a lot sooner to adopt than I was, because I just knew I would get pregnant. I knew the next time it's going to happen because I just we were young and healthy and I'm like this doesn't make any sense, so but he was done with me being on hormones, I think, and being a crazy person because I literally was and so, anyway, then we looked into adoption. It was so, again, so much different back then. This is my son is 16 now, so you know, 18 years ago when we started thinking about it, much different world than what's out there now as far as resources and just the knowledge that all of us have, I think, in general. But His adoption story is kind of a long story that we probably don't have time for. But he was a month old when he came to join our family and it was a very traumatic and awful experience but turned out great.

Shannon Payton: 36:25

Finalized adoption oh, he was nine months old when we finalized adoption and we could breathe and it was good. And then after that we had moved. We thought we were gonna move to Southern California, so we didn't try to adopt again for a while and then we ended up staying here. So we're like, okay, let's try again. Well, it's very, very expensive if you do private or agency adoption. Back then it was like 25 grand.

Michele Folan: 36:49

Oh, my God yeah.

Shannon Payton: 36:50

And this is after. We just spent 50 grand on infertility and the only way we could ever afford that was because my husband's a contractor and he had done a spec house with his parents and we spent every single cent on infertility.

Shannon Payton: 37:04

So then for the adoption, we had to get a loan for it. You know, we're just young kids, Like we have no clue what we're doing. So we did that and then years later we're like we don't have the money to do that again, like we don't, but we do want to grow our family. So we started looking into the, the foster system and what we could do there. So we ended up getting certified as foster parents and went down that direction and I really, you know in my mind, I had a lot of plans in my mind, as you know. A young, young kid that like oh, I want two kids. I would like a boy first and then a girl, and then we're done and we don't have to have a giant car and blah, blah, blah. Everything's cheaper because you just have to buy two things instead of a million. So I had it all planned out and then we got into the foster agency and certified, and so it's a very interesting process and that could be a whole nother story too. But basically you're given these profiles of children and a lot of it's very little information and they're like yes or no, and then they throw you in this pool of whatever family said yes, and then the social workers go through it and pick from there. So while we were doing that, we did respite care, which is kind of like when you're certified as a foster parent, you can babysit, basically, other foster kiddos to give other foster parents a break, or whatever it might be. So we did that for a while. So we had a lot of different kiddos through our home and I enjoyed that. Your heart just breaks for these kids and what they're experiencing, and it opened me up to a completely different world.

Shannon Payton: 38:41

And then I started discovering well, because my social worker kept sending me these profiles and I'm like it's two kids, though, or it's three kids, why are you sending this to me? Because there's so many sibling sets. And so it really really opened me up to like, okay, pro and con list All the con list is like very, very greedy things. Why I'm saying no and you have to be realistic with it. It's not easy, but I started opening, or we started opening yourself up, like, okay, we could handle more kids, like we could do this.

Shannon Payton: 39:16

And then to our son we have an open relationship with um, a lot of his birth family, and I started realizing as we went through the foster system, there's a very high likelihood we will not have a relationship with this child's birth family, most likely. So I was like, well, if they had a birth sibling, at least they always have that one birth connection, because I would feel bad. So those were kind of my thoughts. And then we got our girls and it was like a whirlwind. Again a whole nother story of how we got them, but it was literally like July 7th we got called, we had them on July 11th. It was like super fast.

Shannon Payton: 39:59

We didn't ever see pictures of them. Like we said yes and we just showed up. It was crazy.

Michele Folan: 40:04

Such a crazy experience. Wow, yes, wow. And you had to prepare in four days, yeah, mm-hmm, mm-hmm, yeah. So it was a lot, and even going through all that, the foster parenting.

Shannon Payton: 40:15

Even before we got the girls we had some other sibling sets in our home that didn't work out and that was like devastating. And even now I'll tell my husband I think you know, as the kids get older, maybe we should foster. He's like no, I can't watch you go through that again. That was awful, yeah.

Michele Folan: 40:31

It's hard. Okay, let's yeah. We can move on to the next chapter.

Shannon Payton: 40:34

Right, yeah, exactly, Exactly. But it was great and you know, and we have our three kids At the time, Dakota, my son, was seven, so I went from an only child for seven years and then added two to the pile and when we got the girls, Charlie was 14 months old and Zoe was two and a half. So it was busy in our household and yeah, I joke about it all the time. But I'm like I'm not sure I've recovered from that yet.

Michele Folan: 41:00

It may be a while, just let me tell you, because then they get bigger and as I say bigger kids bigger problems.

Shannon Payton: 41:10

I've seen that already.

Michele Folan: 41:12

Topic for another show. Yeah, for sure, for sure, all right. Well, I do want to touch on this because this is super important. I think you're hilarious, which is why I started following you in the first place. We all like to laugh during our day. When did you discover or find out that, first of all, you were funny and that humor was going to be so therapeutic for you?

Shannon Payton: 41:37

So I think I always was a funny person my mom always was but it got squelched so much in my growing up experiences. Anytime I would do something funny, I feel like I'd get in trouble for it or just get tapped down for it. So as I got out of that, I opened myself up to being funnier. Little by little I had an Instagram account that I would just share with friends and do stupid little things to make them laugh and it was just like no big deal. And then during COVID is when everyone in the world started doing TikToks and I started with my kids like, hey, we're all home, let's do some TikToks, what's this thing? So we started doing that. And then at the same time I kind of had an Instagram and YouTube and just all my accounts kind of small but just playing around with them.

Shannon Payton: 42:28

And then I had a couple of videos go viral and for sure. The one is the bento box, one where I'm like pretending to pack or I'm packing a lunch for my kid versus the beautiful bento box. And that one yeah, that one was a good one that went viral and definitely a lot of people found me from that because I'll get people like if I repost it. I'll get comments that will be like oh my gosh, this is the one that I found you on and I'm like, oh yay, so yeah. So I had a couple of different videos go viral, though, and then it just like blew up into like all these followers and I ended up being on. Well, now I'm friends with them. But our public TV, our public local TV station here. I was on the show a couple of times with them, and then I got to go and be on the Kelly Clarkson show twice before she moved to .

Shannon Payton: 43:17

NYor Yes, so during COVID they did a virtual one, so we got to do a virtual. So I was a part of the virtual during COVID Kelly Clarkson and then, when things opened up, they wanted to do like an in-studio one with people that they had done virtual ones with. So that was like such a fun experience and I love her, oh, I just love her. I love her, it was so much fun. And then, yeah, and then my accounts got hacked last year and I had to start all over what happened with that.

Shannon Payton: 43:48

It was so awful, so awful. And my Facebook account is still hacked, they still are collecting all my monies and they post every hour. It's awful and Facebook doesn't care. So, yeah, they basically one of those things. You get an email, clicked on it and it was like I was in a hurry and I know better you know I get this kind of junk mail all the time with being so public and I was like rushing out the door with the kids on the way to school. Email popped up. I'm like, oh, that's weird. I click on it and it was a hacker and instantly, instantly they took over, because Facebook and Instagram are connected. Both accounts completely gone and they run it still. So in April, I think, I started a new one and it's going well. Like I'm not Facebook the Facebook one hasn't grown at all, but my Instagram one is where I spend most of the time and it's fine. So, but it was so it was awful. Like I hit a really hard low.

Michele Folan: 44:46

It was weird how much it affected me but yeah, cause you put so much work into that. I don't know if people understand and certainly I don't go to the level that you do but just the editing and the take after take after take get it right. Particularly if you're a perfectionist like I am. I've had to learn not to be yeah, I know Well, and that's what I love about you, because you are so self-deprecating. I want everybody to check you out, though, on your Instagram, because if you just want a good laugh and just it's and I know some of it's been kind of therapeutic for you but who is your target audience? Who do you think your show's?

Shannon Payton: 45:39

for. So this season I am focusing more on course of control and cult relationships. So I've been interviewing a lot of people that have just come from cult backgrounds. A couple are just different, like I said, like cultic relationships which can just be like controlling relationships. I just call it cultic because it's so, so similar. So that's kind of where I am this season.

Shannon Payton: 46:00

So I would say my target audience is anyone that either has come out of a religious or cult situation or experience, or maybe still is in one, and is wondering like, well, you're talking about religion and cults, what's the difference? Because I really I mean, my main aim with my podcast is to give people a platform to share their story, because it was so therapeutic. What started it is I started getting asked to be on a lot of different podcasts a couple of years ago and it was feeling so good. I'm like, oh my gosh, someone wants to hear about my story and it was very therapeutic for me. So I'm like I need to do this too. So it's, you know, and I'm never. I don't plan on. I mean I don't know what will ever come of the podcast. It's not like it's crazy big or anything, but I love just giving that platform for people to share their stories.

Shannon Payton: 46:52

And then, going back in the previous seasons, it's kind of been a mix. When I started, it was kind of like, okay, any way that I could connect someone to part of my story, I'm interviewing them. So it left me a lot of openings, which is fun. Like Foster Dad Flipper on Instagram and on all the social medias is amazing. Foster dad, I did an interview with him. His story is incredible and so just stories like that that in some way connect with me. So it's been. I mean, I have talked to some of the most amazing people. It just like blows my mind how exciting and just you learn so much. Like we're all humans. You know, you think people are this perfect something on social media and then you sit down and talk with them and it's like, oh, they're just normal, like me.

Michele Folan: 47:36

So it's pretty cool. I have made some incredible friendships from doing this podcast. It would be hard for me to stop now because it is just being able to connect and then I connect other people to other podcasters and it's just a really cool community of people.

Shannon Payton: 47:53

It really is so.

Michele Folan: 47:54

So I think, you're feeling that too. You're writing a memoir.

Shannon Payton: 47:58

So, kind of, I've been kind of writing it for about three years now and every time I get I've taken like a full year break. At this point and I'm not sure when I'm going to pick it back up. It's definitely going to happen. But I kept hitting like major mental roadblocks where I'm like, okay, it's been good. Because then I'm like, okay, this is where I need to focus my therapy, because I'm really struggling with this that I'm writing about. So it's been a very interesting experience and I'm glad that I started it when I did, because, again, it's giving me opportunities to kind of pivot and adjust my therapy sessions and work on stuff that maybe originally I didn't think I needed to. So, yeah, so it'll happen, but it's not happening anytime. Real soon.

Michele Folan: 48:41

You know, I ask all my guests this, so I would love to know one of your pillars of self-care. What's something that you do for yourself that's important?

Shannon Payton: 48:51

I take time alone, by myself. I'm a very social, talkative person, but I'm also like a big old introvert and I just want to be left alone. So we started this, probably like six years ago, where I will we're about two hours from Reno Nevada, so I'll drive to Reno Nevada, get free rooms at the casinos up there and I will literally stay in my room for three days just journaling, writing, podcast, whatever I feel like doing. And there are some times that I go and I literally don't ever leave the room. I order food and I don't leave the room. Like I love it.

Shannon Payton: 49:35

And that is like turned out to be like my favorite like self-care thing. As far as like really going and do something, little things at home. Obviously, you know like I like to just sit and meditate and be quiet. I love to go get a pedicure, but you know, and part of it is just putting it into practice, there are all these things I like and then I'm like, oh, yeah, I haven't done that for a while, but, yeah, I definitely have learned how important it is. Like, oh, my gosh, I always used to think that's so silly. Like, oh, what are these weak people needing self-care? And I'm like, oh, that's me, I need it.

Michele Folan: 50:09

Well, your trips to Reno are kind of like mom camp, it is, it's the best, it's the best thing ever.

Shannon Payton: 50:16

Good for you Love it. Yeah, I love it.

Michele Folan: 50:17

Do what it takes. All right, Shannon. Where can people find you?

Shannon Payton: 50:22

All right. You can find me at shannypantshow. com and on there will be all my handles to everywhere. I hang out mostly on Instagram at the Real Shanny Pants and on YouTube, the Shanny Pants Show, so those are kind of my main hangouts. My podcast is the Shanny Pants Show as well. So, yeah, go give me a review and like me and all those things for the podcasting world too. But I love it, I love it all and I love connecting with people. I think you know I try to respond to every single message I get and I just think it's. I just think it's. You know social media is so bad in so many ways, but then it's super cool to connecting with people.

Michele Folan: 51:02

Absolutely, and I'll put all of that in the show notes, so if anyone wants to reach out to you, they can do that. Awesome, Shannon Payton. This was delightful. Thank you so much for being here today.

Shannon Payton: 51:12

Of course, I really appreciate you having me. Thank you so much.

Michele Folan: 51:18

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